DeLorean Mailing List - 12/12/96
dmcnews-digest Thursday, 12 December 1996 Volume 02 : Number 200
In this issue:
Re: Chassis Rust
DELOREAN PARTS
Polyurethane Bumper Fix
Re:wiring diagram
Re:DeLoreans in Museums
Re: Wiring Diagram
For Sale
Good Investment?
Rob Grady's DMC
Simpsons DMC
Frame Rust Comments...
New to DML
Re: Rob Grady's DMC
Another milestone reached...
Batteries and Alternator Load.
Roll-over, deadman's switch.
On the subject of power
Missing options...
Reset already!
Re: Good Investment?
Clutch Wear?
Items still available
Re: big battery (again) / Replacing fans
Frame rust: how unsafe is it?
Re: DeLorean as investment / clutch wear New DeLorean Poster available!!
Re: Good Investment?
Nutserts - those threaded rivets in the trunk compartment
First-time Delorean buy
DeLorean Shirts/Plates now online
Re: First-time Delorean buy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 03:33:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Chassis Rust
Richard Strecker wrote:
>What is involved in replacing a badly rusted chassis.
>Is it necessarry?
>How bad can it be before there are structural problems?
>Any idea of the cost for a chassis? Availability?
>Thanks for any information.
>Richard
- ---------------------------------
Sufficient rust in the wrong place, i.e. the members holding the rack & pinion
assembly could kill you since you could (would?) lose steering ability at probably
just the wrong time. A worst case scenario would be the collapse of the car. The
trouble with the DeLorean frame is the epoxy coating which can crack an allow
moisture to get in with nowhere to go ... I have seriously considered having all
of the epoxy removed and simply coating the frame with with heavy grease ... at
least the frame could dry and you would be able to see any grease. I understand
that the cost of a new steel frame (original) from KAPAC is about $3,500 the
stainless version , if I remember correctly, is $8,000 ... neither of those figures
include the cost of breakdown and re-assembly. Best regards,
Marv Sterling
------------------------------
From: RPET123@aol.com
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:00:31 -0500
Subject: DELOREAN PARTS
I AM REBUILDING MY 1983 DELOREAN THAT WAS DAMAGED BY AN ENGINE FIRE. I AM LOOKING
TO BUY ALMOST EVERYTHING INSIDE THE COMPARTMENT EXCEPT THE ENGINE .I
NEED FUEL SYSTEMS COMPLETE,IGN.SYSTEMS COMPLETE,ALL,HOSES,ECT,ECT,IF YOU HAVE
ANY OF THESE ITEMS TO SELL PLEASE CONTACT ME. AT RPET123@AOL.COM
------------------------------
From: DLOREANLVR@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:44:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Polyurethane Bumper Fix
Would you happen to know of a good fix for a 1/16" wide x 1" long scratch (a
gouge actually) on the rear bumper? I'm placing my Delorean into the World
of Wheels competition here in Chicago in January.
Thank you, Tom Sedor
DLOREANLVR @ aol.com
------------------------------
From: Marc Levy
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:57:57 -0500
Subject: Re:wiring diagram
>Can anybody give me pleeeaaase a good scan from the DeLorean wiring diagram??
>My version is very very... bad!!
I have a pretty bad one myself, and am also looking for a better one.. Let me
know if you have any luck.
Marc
------------------------------
From: Marc Levy
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:56:10 -0500
Subject: Re:DeLoreans in Museums
>Somebody (was it Chase?) was looking for a list of DeLoreans in Museums. It took
a while, but I finally dug out
FYI,
There is a DMC in Las Vegas at the Imperial Palace car museum.
Marc
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 07:18:21 -0000
Subject: Re: Wiring Diagram
I have a pretty clean wiring diagram, it came with an original service manual that
I bought earlier this year, and I think it is original as well. It's 11x17 inches
in size, though, which makes for a pretty good sized scan if you want it at a
decent resolution. I will scan it over the weekend and see just how big it is,
but if someone wants a regular xerox copy of it, send me a buck for the copy, stamp
and effort and I'll send one to you.
James Espey/DMC-News
PO Box 4833
Mesa, AZ 85211-4833
602/401-1923 Days
602/464-5352 Fax
------------------------------
From: Richard Strecker Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 12:54:59 -0800
Subject: For Sale
The following are for sale in the Cincinnati area:
1) DELOREAN 1981. 90% restored. 50,000, runs good, excellent in & out, auto.
$12,000/obo Phone: 533-1084 (Published on Friday, December 06, 1996 in Antique
and Collector Cars.)
2) DELOREAN 1981. Stainless steel exterior with gray leather interior, 5 speed.
$10,900. Days 762-5251, Eves Phone: 331-6430
(Published on Thursday, December 05, 1996 in Antique and Collector Cars.)
I have nothing to do with either of these. I have looked at the second and will
give my opinion if asked.
Richard
------------------------------
From: Scott Tester Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 02:09:11
-0500 (EST) Subject: Good Investment?
I have found a 1981 DeLorean for sale. This car has between 60-70,000 miles,
has a good body, good tires, bad timing chain and some frame rust. It has been garaged
for years and just needs some TLC. The price is $7,000.00 and that includes shipping
to my house. I am 18 years old and will be able to get the loan but I am worried that
I will not be able to afford loan payments and the restoration costs at the same time.
Would it be a good investment? I would appriciate any suggestions towards what I
should do or etc.. Thanks!
Scott Tester testersd@appstate.campus.mci.net
------------------------------
From: Mpeak@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 17:57:54 -0500
Subject: Rob Grady's DMC
I have heard Chase and others compliment Rob Grady's British racing green DMC
for some time but have never seen any pictures. But if the picture in the recent
Delorean World of the BRG DMC is of Rob's car, I am breathless. I had
thought about silver BBS rims before (it looks like he put on 15 & 16 inch),
but the combination of the color and the rims is awsome. I don't think I could ever
paint over my stainless steel, but if I did, it would be either BRG or Porsche smoke
silver (as in the new 993's).
- -Matt
------------------------------
From: zerkle
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 11:02:11 -0800
Subject: Simpsons DMC
Anyone interested in reading a script and description of episode 3F15 of the
Simpsons with troy McLure and his DeLorean go to:
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F15.html
There's lot's of great information, byt no pictures yet. Still the Simpsons archive
is a cool site explore. Take care!
------------------------------
From: Bryan Pearce Date: Sun, 8 Dec 96 12:55:19 -0600
Subject: Frame Rust Comments...
In issue #199 Mike Substelny made some statements that I wish comment on:
>If you are talking about the double wishbone frame, you need to remove the body
and all mechanical parts from the old frame and put them on the new one. Someone on
the DML once said that this is not as hard as it sounds. I suggest you search the
back issues.
I have performed this procedure with two DeLoreans, if you have any questions about
it, please let me know.
>My original 1981 frame is
>still in good shape, it was built well and the epoxy coating is still giving it
good protection. As far as I am concerned you would need to mistreat a DeLorean for
it to need a new frame this soon. Perhaps if the car has been lowered and you like
to "catch some air" at railroad crossings your epoxy will be scraped off. That would
do it.
I disagree with the statement that you have to have a mistreated DeLorean for you
to require a new frame. The epoxy coating becomes brittle and cracks, keeping
moisture between the coating and the steel. Many frames look fine on the exterior,
but may be hiding some serious frame problems.
Basically, any car that has been driven regularly or in the winter, has the potential
for serious frame problems. As a matter of fact, many people recommended removing
the original epoxy and painting the frame.
>Obviously structural problems depend on the location of the rust. A concentration of
rust in the wrong place can be very bad, but most of the DeLorean frame is overbuilt
and it can tolerate a little rust sprinkled here and there.
Most of the DeLorean frame is certainly not "Overbuilt" in many places it is much too
thin and in others, simply adequate. So, unfortunately, rust and the removal of that
rust can impact the stability of the frame.
>>Any idea of the cost for a chassis? Availability?
>You should be able to find used, reconditioned, and maybe even new frames. If you
can get the aftermarket stainless steel frame then do it. Off the top of my head I
don't know a price, but it is easy to get quotes. See the list of suppliers on the
DML home page under "Survey Results" and make a few phone calls.
For information about the Stainless Steel frame, please drop me an E-Mail.
The DeLorean frame is an important issue for me. Driving any car with a damaged frame
can result in serious injury. One of my fears is that people will start driving these
cars after they have been sitting, or purchase a DeLorean from someone trying to sell
it because of a bad frame and not understand what to look for. I have personally seen
four cars in the past year that were being sold for a GREAT price with really bad
frame problems. I would hate to see DeLorean cars start to get bad press because they
have become unsafe to drive and are causing accidents.
Bryan Pearce
------------------------------
From: CDIUSAMPS@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 02:38:20 -0500
Subject: New to DML
I am new to the DML. I currently own a 1981 DMC, vin 5319. I am also a member of the
DOA. I guess it was time to come out of the closet. Lots of
good info here (when focused). You will note I will be one of yoiur more radical
participants.
------------------------------
From: "Michael E. Gaines" Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 14:49:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Rob Grady's DMC
Matt and all,
Not only is Rob's DMC impressive in the (out of focus) picture, but even more
impressive when driving in it. I find the British Green more impressive than some
flat red DMCs that I've seen (yuck!). I'd still never paint mine, though.
Mike
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 09:08:45 -0000
Subject: Another milestone reached...
Way back when, in August of 1995, DMC-News was born. At first it was a manually created
digest, and there were only ten subscribers. Eight months later Digest #100 was
distributed, and there were 246 subscribers. Here we are a scant eight months further
along and Digest #200 will go out to some 281 subscribers and another 65 people are
subscribed to the "live" version of the DeLorean Mailing List as well. My sincere
thanks go to out to all who contribute and subscribe!
Watch for some exciting developments in your DeLorean Mailing List for 1997!
James "Mikasa" Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com New for '97 - http://www.dmcnews.com/
------------------------------
From: awolf@pacific.telebyte.net
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:49:10 -0800
Subject: Batteries and Alternator Load.
>Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a bigger battery will >put a much larger load
>on the already overworked 90 amp Motorolla alternator than the >stock battery would.
>The alternator will have a very difficult time keeping this >large bettery charged.
For those who have asked, I DO have the 90 amp motorolla, and this provides plenty of
power at all times except for idle.
My main concern, was the effect of the cold in regards to power output here in Washington.
More times then I can count (or care to) the original spec
battery just didn't have the power to start in the morning. I haven't had a
problem since. The fact that it puts forth to help level out power at idle was
a byproduct and a pleasant one, I must admit.
Personally, I don't believe that this larger battery puts much more load on the battery
at all. As I said, the alternator puts out well enough power for
everything in the car to be run at optimal when not idling, and then some.
Before anybody takes this as a feasable alternative to installing a higher output
alternator, there still is a slight undervoltage at idle, but it's
leveled out, there is less of a surge between normal and undervoltage. Leveling
out the peaks and valleys, it was once put by someone else on the list a while
back.
For those who have the problems or concerns I had that led me to buy this larger battery,
I can only say that I'm happy with it, it's put my mind at
ease especially on cold days. It's certainly something you might consider.
I can't remember who it was on DML who originally planted the idea of the larger battery
in my head, but my thanks goes to him.
------------------------------
From: awolf@pacific.telebyte.net
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:55:07 -0800
Subject: Roll-over, deadman's switch.
Reach under your dash, usually mounted to the firewall to the left. You should find a
black box with a button you can pull up.
------------------------------
From: awolf@pacific.telebyte.net
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:52:32 -0800
Subject: On the subject of power
I thought I'd bring it up. Does anybody have any suggestions as to replacement cooling
fans? When they click on they really pull hard from the
engine, and I'd like to replace them with lower power units. Quieter ones
too...
------------------------------
From: awolf@pacific.telebyte.netDate: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:31:55 -0800
Subject: Missing options...
Heated mirrors?
------------------------------
From: awolf@pacific.telebyte.net
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 16:03:23 -0800
Subject: Reset already!
My trip reset button recently broke off, sniffle... but what got me was that when
I push what remains of the reset shaft in, the unit doesn't reset. No matter how
many times or different ways I push on
it. On the shaft that broke off, the end has a little gear-like end on it, it
doesn't move and doesn't appear to do anything in particular on the part of the
shaft that's still attached to the dash.
I was amazed to have it snap off when barely touched at all, but to find it doesn't
work at all without the whole shaft...???
------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 03:29:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Good Investment?
Scott Tester wrote:
>I have found a 1981 DeLorean for sale. This car has between 60-70,000 miles,
>has a good body, good tires, bad timing chain and some frame rust. It has been
garaged for years and just needs some TLC. The price is $7,000.00 and that includes
shipping to my house. I am 18 years old and will be able to get the loan but I am
worried that I will not be able to afford loan payments and the restoration costs at
the same time. Would it be a good investment? I would appriciate any suggestions towards
what I should do or etc.. Thanks!
>Scott Tester testersd@appstate.campus.mci.net
- ------------------------------------------- Scott -
Based on the prices that I've seen mentioned in this list I would say that the DeLorean
is a lousy investment. I was offered $20,000, as a trade in on a new car for my wife,
for my '83 just two years ago - granted my D is in excellent condition and is continuously
maintained, but $12,000 for an '81 on this list a few messages ago ? I should have taken
the trade in offer.
Best regards,
Marv Sterling
------------------------------
From: Scott Tester Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:47:58
-0500 (EST) Subject: Clutch Wear?
Is it true that some early 81 model DMC's had a clutch wear problem?
Scott Tester testersd@appstate.campus.mci.net
------------------------------
From: dgf108@psu.edu (Damien Falato)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:23:06 -0500
Subject: Items still available
I still have a few items left for sale. The lit is as follows.
Catalitic convertors, quantity=3, retail=495.00, my price=260.00
carbon cannister, quantity=1, retail=70.00, my price=25.00
cigarete lighters, quantity=1, retail 25.00, my price=10.00
Luggage racks, quantity=5, retail=245.00, my price=80.00
Once I again I request no E-mail responses. If interested call me at 814-453-2303.
P.S. I'm in the eastern time zone, so those of you in pacific please call before
7:00 P.M. your time.
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:02:55 -0500
Subject: Re: big battery (again) / Replacing fans
Awolf said:
>Personally, I don't believe that this larger battery puts much more load on . . .
I have a large battery in my DeLorean, and it does help with starting on cold
Cleveland days. My favorite advantage of the big battery is that it allows me to
keep my doors open with marker lights on (at car shows) for a long time without
worrying about getting my engine started afterwards.
Note that the big battery DOES put a heavy load on the alternator when I do this.
That is, when the big battery gets depleated my car really strains to recharged it.
Under these conditions I like to drive my car for fifteen minutes on the freeway
(so cooling fans don't come on) in the daylight (so headlights are off).
Another point about big batteries is the folly of counting on them for long term
high load conditions, but I have written about this repeatedly. Search the archives
if you didn't get that one.
>Does anybody have any suggestions as to replacement cooling fans? When they click
on they really pull hard from the engine . . .
Geez, Wolfie, is your weather cold or hot? Seriously, I wouldn't touch the cooling
fans. Mine failed once due to a loose wire, and heat buildup while stopped in traffic
was VERY FAST! The DeLorean produces a lot of heat, and when those fans are on they
obviously work very hard. If you want to relieve electrical load as they kick in then
check into a Fanzilla from Rob Grady.
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:33:13 -0500
Subject: Frame rust: how unsafe is it?
Bryan Pearce said:
>One of my fears is that people will start driving these cars after they have been
sitting, or purchase a DeLorean from someone trying to sell it because of a bad frame
and not understand what to look for . . .
This is an excellent subject for discussion. When I purchased my DeLorean frame rust
was one of my greatest concerns, so I selected a car with almost perfect epoxy and no
noticeable rust. I was frame paranoid because someone had told me to be that way.
I turned down several otherwise nice DeLoreans because of minor frame rust. However,
I happen to know that years later all of those cars are still on the road and
functioning perfectly. In fact, to this day I have never heard of any DeLorean frame
causing an accident.
I don't doubt that frame rust is a legitimate concern, but the question is, how unsafe
is it? Does anyone know of a DeLorean frame that actually experienced catastrophic
failure and caused an accident? What part of the frame failed? What was its condition
prior to failure?
I request that everyone on the DML please share your specific stories of frame failure
accidents. They could save lives!
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:04:01 -0500
Subject: Re: DeLorean as investment / clutch wear
Scott Tester said:
>. . . I am 18 years old and will be able to get the loan but I am worried that I
will not be able to afford loan payments and the restoration costs at the same time.
Would it be a good investment?
This *might* be a decent deal on a DeLorean, if you simply must own a DeLorean and
you think restoring this car can make you happy. If you are strictly looking for an
investment then I must agree with Marv. In my wildest dreams I don't expect any
DeLorean to appreciate faster than the interest on an auto loan (yet). Find yourself
a stock nice mutual fund for a couple of years, then buy your DeLorean with the profits.
>Is it true that some early 81 model DMC's had a clutch wear problem?
At over 50,000 miles I still have my original clutch, even though my car had the polymer
hydraulic line (which is not clutch friendly) up until this summer. My car is #1280,
which certainly qualifies as an early 81 model.
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 11:28:16 -0000
Subject: New DeLorean Poster available!!
Finally! For a long time I've wanted a nice, good size DeLorean poster, no snow drifts,
no "DEALER" license plates or any BTTF cars - just a nice poster of a clean, original
car in a nice setting. I ended up making it myself.
This past summer I took my car out to Red Mountain Ranch Country Club and had a
professional photographer take some photos of my 1982 DeLorean. The resulting
transparencies were then professionally drum-scanned by the best color separator in
Phoenix. The 330 megabyte file was then imaged on a Scitex Dolev 800 imagesetter,
and printed by the best printing company in Arizona on a heavy 100# paper stock in a
20 x 28 inch size, and then aqueous coated for added luster and protection.
See this poster for yourself at:
http://www.goodnet.com/~mikasa/poster.html
Those of you without WWW access can email me and I will you email you a smaller,
low-res version of the poster so you can see what it looks like.
James Espey
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility and there are so few of us left.
------------------------------
From: RazzzzD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:59:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Good Investment?
Scott,
I looked for over three years before I found the one I really wanted to buy.
DONT jump at the first one you see. You have alot of channels out there. Look
around, you have an array of publications to assist in your quest. Understand, that
you will be buying a car that is over 15 years olds. Wait
until you find that "special one". You'll know when it's the right one. Good luck in
your search Future DeLorean owner
Raz
------------------------------
From: CarlIanNew@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:01:06 -0500
Subject: Nutserts - those threaded rivets in the trunk compartment
Hello all,
Nutserts, or threaded rivets, are the aluminum threaded sleeves which are attached
to the fiberglass panels in the trunk area. Access panels are attached with screws
which use these nutserts. They are also used other places throughout the car.
They make better ones now. A company called AVK industries makes one out of Monel.
Monel does not rust, looks very much like stainless steel, and are MUCH stronger
than aluminum (which fatigues). They are ribbed to prevent spin.
I will be getting some of these nutserts, but there is a minimum order of one thousand
pieces. They are installed with a hand tool purchased from harbor freight tools for
$13.00. I have access to the metric mandrel which fits the tool for our application
($13.00 also).
If anyone has interest in buying some of these nutserts, or has questions, please let
me know. They are about 70 cents each. I will also get a mandrel for those that would
like it.
=0D
Carl Newman
DMC #1704
DOA 5138
------------------------------
From: Mike Asher
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:43:58 -0600
Subject: First-time Delorean buy
I'm considering buying my first Delorean. There are none for sale in my = immediate
area, but I visit Metro Atlanta once a month, and I see two or = three in the
classifieds there, generally in the $15K range. I want a = car I can drive around,
not a garage showpiece. I also want to keep the = vehicle in tiptop condition. This
means constant expense, obviously. =
My question is a general one: what sort of costs can I expect in = maintaining a
DeLorean, and how available are new and/or used parts?
Thanks for any info.
- --
Mike Asher
masher@tusc.net
------------------------------
From: Products, products@delorean-owners.org Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:44:32 -0500
(EST) Subject: DeLorean Shirts/Plates now online
Check out these items on the updated Association Web Page located at
www.delorean-owners.org
Available Now - Items for ALL DELOREAN Enthusiasts!
MEET THE WILD ONES!
White, heavyweight, 100% cotton shirts. These brand new DeLorean shirts have
the distinctive DMC logo on the left chest, and a colorful, flying DeLorean
on the back. They are the brightest, wildest graphics we've ever produced.
Every DeLorean fan will want at least one of each style.
Available in M, X, XL, and XXL and following styles:
3-button Short Sleeve Henley $25.00
Long Sleeve Mock Turtleneck $15.00 will be $20.00
after February 1997
Short Sleeve Tee Shirt $15.00
HOT PLATES!
There's no hotter collectible today than plates. Out New 15th Anniversary Collector
Plates are available on a first-come first-served basis, so we suggest that you
order today.
Only 100 of these individually numbered 7 3/4" plates have been minted. One
side illustrates our silver beauty, and the others tells a brief history of
the marque.
$25.00 each
- -------------------------------
Please add 8.25% sales tax for all California residents.
Please add following shipping charges for orders totaling up to:
UP TO Shipping Charge
$25 $5
$40 $6
$55 $7
$70 $8
$85 $9
$100 $10
$200 $15
over $200 $20
Please FAX or Phone your order with credit card info to (818) 547-3638 or mail check,
money order, or credit card information with your order to:
Marcie Haug
Products Director
DeLorean Owners Association
1617 Del Valle Avenue
Glendale, CA 91208
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 07:48:16 -0000
Subject: Re: First-time Delorean buy
>My question is a general one: what sort of costs can I expect in maintaining a
DeLorean, and how available are new and/or used parts?
I don't believe that maintenance costs are any more than other 15 year old cars
that are in the same category. Generally speaking you will put more money into a
15 year old car than you will a 2 year old car, but if you buy a DeLorean that has
been well-maintained as opposed to one that has had "band-aids" and "backyard engineering"
applied to it throughout its life, I think you will find it to be a reliable, fun car
that will NOT eat you out of house and home.
Parts, both new and used, and readily available. There is NOTHING on the car that I
cannot have in my hands within 72 hours, and I'd bet that 98% of those parts I can get
the same or next day, depending on how much I am willing to pay for shipping. Many
mechanical parts can be sourced locally as well, depending on the size of the city
that you live in. While returning to Phoenix from Nashville in the DeLorean, I thought
that I needed a new fuel pump. I happened to be in Springfield, Missouri (not a bustling
metropolis, but it's not Hooterville either) and they had a fuel pump in the warehouse
that they had in my hands in 30 minutes. The guys behind the parts counter were more
surprised than I was.
James Espey
Happy Holidays - buy a poster!
http://www.goodnet.com/~mikasa/poster.html
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V2 #200
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