dmcnews-digest Friday, 21 February 1997 Volume 02 : Number 214 In this issue: ADMIN NOTE: Inaccurate subjects Fires Re: Too tall? Re: Cracked Dash/Dash Removal Re: Cracked dash fix??? FW: 97 Euro-Fest Re: Cracked Dash/Dash Removal Re: DeLorean Dealerships Re: Cracked dash fix??? Kapac/ P.J. Grady Re: Too tall? Battery Charger & Alarm? / Email Address TURBO CHARGERS replacing ignition wires ... Third Brakelight -vs- Concours Judging Re: Alleged Kit Car Re: DeLorean Dealerships Chapter 41 and the DMC FAQ Re: Too tall? Re: TURBO CHARGERS Re: Third Brakelight -vs- Concours Judging Re: Third Brakelight -vs- Concours Judging DMC Originality Re: DMC Originality Re: Kapac catalog Re: concourse originality Re: DMC Originality Re: DeLorean Dealerships Re: Cracked dash fix??? Compatible Muffler ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James EspeyDate: Wed, 19 Feb 97 06:48:26 -0000 Subject: ADMIN NOTE: Inaccurate subjects Okay, I posted a note about inaccurate subject lines last week, and up til now I have been either fixing them on my own or returning them to the sender for correction and re-posting. Everyone PLEASE pay attention to your subject lines. The DeLorean Mailing List now has over 400 subscribers and it MUST be moderated to keep the "signal-to-noise" ratio acceptable. All messages with inaccurate subjects will be returned and you will have to correct it and re-post it to the list. It's nothing personal against anyone, it's simply a matter of the moderator (me) effectively using my time vesus the contributor (you) effectively using your mind/typing fingers. Thank you. James "Mikasa" Espey Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List http://www.dmcnews.com Coming in '97 - http://www.dmcnews.com/ ------------------------------ From: magriese@VNET.IBM.COM Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 08:17:23 CST Subject: Fires One potential source of a fire in a DeLorean is the fuel injection lines. My wife and I were driving down a gravel road in central Minnesota a couple of summers ago when I noticed some orange flickering in the rear view mirror. Hitting the brakes (hard!) without the clutch killed the engine (and the fuel pump!). You never saw a pair of gullwing doors go up so fast in your life. Fortunately, we had some pop cans in the car that were sufficient to put out the fire. Diet Dr. Pepper (shaken, not stirred) is a pretty effective fire retardent. The fire must have just started, as the only damage was a little soot on the engine cover and some melted insulation on the cold start injector harness. The cause turned out to be a small leak around the banjo clips that secure the fuel injection lines from the fuel distributor to the injector. As a precaution, we removed all of the injection lines and inspected them for cracks - we found 2 that needed to be replaced (replacements are available from Volvo). Now all of our cars have fire extinguishers in prominent places, even the new ones. Mike Griese magriese@vnet.ibm.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Substelny Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:00:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Too tall? Dan asked: >I have heard that DeLorean's can fit a 6'5" man. I am 6'4",with this in mind can I fit enough to move about in the car? Thanks! Amazingly enough, a DeLorean also has enough room for a 6'5 woman! (Theoretically speaking, I've never seen this tested). You should have no trouble fitting in a DeLorean, Dan. Actually you will find in much easier to get into/out of a DeLorean than a typical sports car because of the gullwing doors. I'm 6'1 and I sometimes bump my head on the door frame of my SO's Porsche, but never my DeLorean. So I would say the DeLorean is the best sports car ever made for a tall person. - - Mike Substelny ------------------------------ From: James Espey Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 07:51:43 -0000 Subject: Re: Cracked Dash/Dash Removal While in Los Angeles recently, I drove by a place in Van Nuys called "Just Dashes" at 5941 Lemona Avenue, (Zip code 91411), phone 800-247-3274. They were very nice and spent some time showing me their operation and gave me some information on their services. I also have a small crack in my speaker grille, and they seemed confident they could fix it with a thermo-vacuum covering that would then be dyed to match. There is another place that I read about in Hemmings up in Medford, Oregon (in your neck of the woods, Knut?) called Dash Specialists at 1910 Redbud Lane (541-776-0040). Ihave no other informtaion about this comapny. The problem is that the dash must be removed from the car...and I understand that to be no small undertaking. I am under the impression that dash removal. installation requires removal of the windshield, which in and of itself is no small undertaking. Does anyone have experience in the area of dash removal? James ------------------------------ From: "John W. Herron" Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:57:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Cracked dash fix??? Gentlemen: CRACKED DASHES As for the cracked dash in the speaker grille areas, I did some research...Just Dashes, Inc., Van Nuys, will repair the dash for around $480. Thermo-vacuum the whole thing. KAPAC, sells a brand new dash for around $320. Either way, you will have to remove the dash. I dont know how many dashes are left at KAPAC, however, at that price, it is very reasonable. Most likely buy one from them...until I am ready for that concourse resto. FOR TIME BEING... I looked at some speaker grilles to cover the cracked area for the time being. They are very hard to find...most 3.5 inch speakers dont come with grilles. The width measurement of the RH speaker area (on top, dash) is 4 inches...from edge of glove box to pillar. Looked at 4 inch speaker grilles...they far exceed the area width available... speaker size is 4 inches...matching grilles will be about 4.5 inches. There is no room...at least on the RH side. I found some 3.5 inch grilles though...in Crutchfield. They are on the Kenwood's KSC-7702 and KSC-9903 truck speaker boxes. Those grilles are black mesh and pretty nice looking. It is likely that the grilles can be ordered from a Kenwood dealer. I will look into to this further. I can be emailed at: herron@usc.edu Regards, John VIN#4115 DOA So. Cal ------------------------------ From: "Scott Mueller" Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 01:02:50 UT Subject: FW: 97 Euro-Fest I am planning on attending the Euro-Fest in Belfast. I purchased my RT airfare yesterday from CPTT in San Francisco. 1.800.282.2188 RT airfare from SF to BFS (Belfast) flying British Airways is $784 including all taxes This was the best fare I was able to find, Flying 5/21/97 & 5/25/97. Aer Lingus (Irelands National Airline) is already booked for that week, and the discount seats are filling rapidly. Unfortunately, I do not have extra time to stretch this trip out. Get your passport in order, that is the first question I was asked when I booked my flight. Looking forward to meeting my fellow owners in May. ------------------------------ From: DMC12JR@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:39:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Cracked Dash/Dash Removal You don't have to remove the windshield to remove the dash pad but there is a stud in the pad that is easy to catch on the console so you might want to remove it just to make sure you don't have any problems.!!!!! ------------------------------ From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:05:25 -0800 Subject: Re: DeLorean Dealerships STANDLOR@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 97-02-18 10:34:12 EST, you write: ><< Does anyone know why the DeLorean's at such centers as DeLorean One are ssso expensive? >> SNIP - SNIP >... Usually, the owner sells it because he has abused it, and is tired of putting money into the car to bring it back to where it should have >been in the first place. - --------------------------------------- Stan I take issue with your statement . . . mine ( vin 16000 '83 ) is virtually new, has been regularly maintained ( full records available ) and is for sale . . . for $25,000 - no haggling, no discussions! In fact one admirer just today was commenting on how he would love having a D and all I said was 25K and it's yours . . . he is going to get back to me. The point that I am attempting to make is that if you can't maintain a D, or similar collectible, then perhaps the person simply should not own one. They used to say about Tiffany's, in NYC, if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it. I'm really a little tired of, as some member of this list did, reading about owners trying to prove that the D is not worth what people think that it is. Beauty, and value, are in the eye of the beholder. 'nuff said. Marv Sterling ------------------------------ From: DMC12JR@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:41:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Cracked dash fix??? I don't know where these prices came from but Kapac sells black dashes for $343.75 and grey dashes for $612.33. That is a big diff from the $320 that was posted. As far as the quality of them they are not the best.(mint) If you have any questions as to where to get one let me know! DMC12JR parts locator tech on-line ------------------------------ From: mack777@ix.netcom.com (James McBurney) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:09:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Kapac/ P.J. Grady Does anyone know if KAPAC offers any type of catalog. I am interested in the going prices for parts. Also I will be going to P.J. Grady by the end of the week. If anyone wants a questioned answered, let me know. I will be looking into the condition of the refurbished DeLorean's. Hopefully they will have a few for sale. Thanks! -Dan ------------------------------ From: mack777@ix.netcom.com (James McBurney) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:59:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Too tall? You wrote: >Dan asked: >>I have heard that DeLorean's can fit a 6'5" man. I am 6'4",with this in mind can I fit enough to move about in the car? Thanks! >Amazingly enough, a DeLorean also has enough room for a 6'5 woman! (Theoretically speaking, I've never seen this tested). Please excuse my statement on "Can a DeLorean fit a 6'5" MAN. Kindly respect this as a 6'5" person. Also I would like to thank all of the people, man and woman who have provided information on the car for me. Hopefully I will be able to purchase a DeLorean, as I am entering medical school shortly and it is a mater of a BIGGER bank loan. Thanks again for your continuing information. -Dan ------------------------------ From: GullWinged@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:08:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Battery Charger & Alarm? / Email Address I finally have the alarm in my DeLorean functioning properly, although I had to wire the constant positive and negative leads from the siren/control unit directly to the battery posts. In the process I have discovered that I likely have the negative battery cable corroding where it contacts the frame as I lost all power to the car while moving the battery in and out to wire everythign up. I'll check and attend to that problem later though. For now, I am curious about a somewhat related subject. I am thinking of trying to take some stress off my alternator this summer by purchasing a solar-powered battery charger to keep in the car and plug in every so often. My only questions are 1) will this be much help or just look silly and add to the car's mystique even further AND 2) will such a system be incompatible with a car alarm? Also, some people may have noticed my absence from the list for a while. During the holiday season I moved from Jefferson City, Missouri to Columbia, which is 30 miles north. I am just now getting settled in and returning to the 'Net on a regular basis. I cancelled my account with my local ISP and am now using GullWinged@aol.com as my email address instead of stormrider@socketis.net. This is only a temporary solution until I find a national ISP that is very friendly to Macintosh users and has a local access number for Columbia. I'll post another email address when I get one, until then just use the AOL address stated above. Thanks everyone! ~ Chase Join "EvangeList," Guy Kawasaki's (un)official Apple listserver of good news about Apple, Macintosh, and third-party developers. To subscribe to EvangeList, send an email to: and include in the body of the message the text: Subscribe Macway ------------------------------ From: "Scott Mueller" Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 01:03:02 UT Subject: TURBO CHARGERS I to am looking for info so I can Turbo-charge my Delorean. Recently on TNN, I say the end of a segment for an electric motor powered turbo charger. It looked like it would be much easier to install rather than the exhaust driven unit. It was a very clean installation. Has anyone seen or heard of such a device? Does anyone know the manufacture? ------------------------------ From: Matt Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:31:27 +0100 Subject: replacing ignition wires ... Pulling one of the ignition cables it broke apart in my hands. Fifteen years were obviously too much. Are there replacement parts from another car that fit the D'? Could you give me the brand and year, please? ------------------------------ From: "Scott Mueller" Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 01:02:34 UT Subject: Third Brakelight -vs- Concours Judging The idea of a third brake light seems to be great. I am concerned about what affect this fantastic safety item might have during Concourse Judging. It would be a shame if you lost points for such an obvious safety improvement. How could we get the rules changed so a deduct would not be taken? I think that if it is a good clean unobtrusive installation, it should just be considered part of the Brake light system. My 1981 still needs the safety recalls performed, it is in as bought from the dealer condition with 13,000 miles. I would like to drive it more but am very concerned about visibility, but do not want to make any modifications from original that would affect its score when I am able to enter it in the annual Concourse Competition. Anyone else have any thoughts or wisdom on this subject? ------------------------------ From: GullWinged@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:57:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Alleged Kit Car >First, the number of people who think there is a Ford engine in the car is truly astounding. I also concur with that statement. Anytime someone asks about the car the topic invariably leads to the choice of powerplant. The person is always surprised to learn that it is the European PRV, aka Volvo V6. More than half the time people claim they thought it had a Ford V8, but I always correct them and pop the engine lid to prove otherwise. ~ Chase "You always have new chances and new possibilities each and every day when you are a Mac user." ------------------------------ From: STANDLOR@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:18:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: DeLorean Dealerships In a message dated 97-02-19 23:27:13 EST, you write: << he point that I am attempting to make is that if you can't maintain a D, or similar collectible, then perhaps the person simply should not own one. >> Marv- You and I don't really think that much apart. My car would not be sold for a penney under $25,000.00, but the difference is that you and I maintain our vehicles. Unfortunately, many of our fellow owners, either through neglect, unable to afford to do it properly, or whatever, DO NOT, maintain their cars. Not only do they not maintain them, but they insist on putting on inferior, foreign,and strange adaptions, for parts that for the most part, are readily available. I havd observed quite a few cars (DMC's) at dealers lots, and have examined the condition of the cars that are selling in the area of $20,000.00. They are in shamefull condition ! Wires holding parts together, parts missing, dirty, filty, torn leather, etc. They had what they deserved, junk, that was sold to a dealer. Stan ------------------------------ From: Knut S Grimsrud Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 15:18:00 PST Subject: Chapter 41 and the DMC FAQ It has come to my attention that the DeLorean FAQ could be construed as an official publication of the DeLorean Owners Association. The FAQ is a publication of Regional Chapter 41 and is not a sanctioned publication of the DeLorean Owners Association nor does it speak for the association. Although clearly stated in the "About" section of the FAQ, my use of the complete chapter designation, including the DOA prefix, may have caused some confusion. I apologize for any confusion or misunderstanding caused by the materials and will clarify this in a subsequent release of the FAQ. I also wish to thank Dave Takeuchi and James Espey for generously providing server space, resources, and expertise to allow the FAQ to reach such a wide audience. Knut Grimsrud Coordinator DOA Regional Chapter 41 ------------------------------ From: Jameel Ahed Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:26:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Too tall? John Delorean Himself was very tall... That is the story behind the gulwing doors... He was sick and tired of having no room to get out of the car when some "idiot" parked a car way to close to the Delorean... It only needs less than a foot to open the doors and you can't bang your head on the roof of the car because that is actually part of the door... and when that door is open there is a ton of space for ya! The car was built around a very tall JOHN Z DELOREAN! Jameel Ahed If this is incorrect please let me know... ------------------------------ From: raddad@cmn.net Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:38:57 -0700 Subject: Re: TURBO CHARGERS >I to am looking for info so I can Turbo-charge my Delorean. >Recently on TNN, I say the end of a segment for an electric motor powered turbo charger. It looked like it would be much easier to install rather than >the exhaust driven unit. It was a very clean installation. >Has anyone seen or heard of such a device? Does anyone know the manufacture? Scott News to me. There is an electric motor that comes as an adjunct to a regular turbo charger. It's pupose is to keep rpms up in the turbo so that there is no turbo lag at lower speeds and or at gear shift changes. It is offered as an aftermarket device, custom for you particular car, and is also standard equipment on the Vector. Again, I don't know manufacturer. If you are really into turbos, get TURBO magazine. Loads of information. Dick Ryan ------------------------------ From: raddad@cmn.net Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:40:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Third Brakelight -vs- Concours Judging Scott Concours and modifications are like oil and water - they don't mix! Dick Ryan ------------------------------ From: James Espey Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 06:57:54 -0000 Subject: Re: Third Brakelight -vs- Concours Judging >The idea of a third brake light seems to be great. I am concerned about what affect this fantastic safety item might have during Concourse Judging. It would be a shame if you lost points for such an obvious safety improvement. >How could we get the rules changed so a deduct would not be taken? >I think that if it is a good clean unobtrusive installation, it should just be considered part of the Brake light system. The very definition of concours is "originality". The addition of a third brake light violates the integrity of an "original" car, no matter how "clean" or "unobtrusive" it looks. I'm not going to argue the safety merits, I'm in agreement with you there, but as far as concours goes, it's ridiculous to think the rules on how to judge an "original" car will be changed in this regard. If memory serves, the max enterior *modification* deduction is 5 points, and I can't imagine how a third brake light would subject you to more than a 1 or 2 point deduction. Check the concours rules at the DOA web page for more details. Some time ago at a DOA board meeting when the concours rules were being updated, the subject arose regarding the plastic overflow bottles - which are generally considered to be unreliable - and whether or not points should be deducted for having replaced this **even if you had the original bottle with the car - just not installed**. It was decided that this was not acceptable. James ------------------------------ From: CDIUSAMPS@aol.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:04:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: DMC Originality One has to wonder who benefits from keeping a Delorean totally original. Sure the owner to a certain extent. But I am starting to wonder if all the originality rules are not a way of keeping certain parts suppliers able to sell their wares at sometimes outrageous prices, while at the same time selling aftermarket items which do not conform to the "rules" of competition. Another question is the close or overlapping relationship of certain parts suppliers and the DOA. Just a thought, don't get hostile. BILL ------------------------------ From: "Michael E. Gaines" Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:29:13 -0500 Subject: Re: DMC Originality Bill and all, I, too, don't understand how the Concours rules cannot accept safety features. Hell, I got into two accidents and am thinking about getting a third Corvette light. Now, in the interest of safety, why should this be a deduction? Maybe that's a weak argument, but how about the safer aluminum coolant bottle? This is why I'll never enter into a Concours. I love my car, but I'm not sacrificing getting a CD player or a third brakelight or a safer coolant bottle just to be a forgotten name in an annual issue of DeLorean World. Sorry if I seem cynical. Mike CDIUSAMPS@aol.com wrote: >One has to wonder who benefits from keeping a Delorean totally original. SSure the owner to a certain extent. But I am starting to wonder if all the >originality rules are not a way of keeping certain parts suppliers able to sell their wares at sometimes outrageous prices, while at the same time selling aftermarket items which do not conform to the "rules" of competition. >Another question is the close or overlapping relationship of certain parts >suppliers and the DOA. Just a thought, don't get hostile. >BILL ------------------------------ From: Mike Substelny Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:13:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Kapac catalog Dan asked: >Does anyone know if KAPAC offers any type of catalog. I am interested in the going prices for parts. I don't think so. I believe they planned to use their web page as a catalog ( www.deloreanparts.com) but there has been no advancement on that page in a long, long time. Kapac essentially uses the DeLorean factory parts manual as a sort of catalog. You call and give them a part number from the manual and they quote you a price. - -Mike Substelny ------------------------------ From: Mike Substelny Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 16:12:00 -0500 Subject: Re: concourse originality BILL said: >But I am starting to wonder if all the originality rules are nnot a way of keeping certain parts suppliers able to sell their wares . . . Welcome to the world of classic cars, BILL. The DOA did not invent "originality" concourse competitions, so don't blame the DOA, parts suppliers, or Concourse sponsors. I have seen marques from Rolls-Royce to Chevy compete on originality. My SO's father occasionally judges originality in Mercedes competitions. Frankly we're lucky the DOA has a concourse competition. If they didn't, where would DeLorean owners go when we wanted a little appreciation for the pristine condition of our car? - -Mike Substelny ------------------------------ From: Brian Henderlong Date: 20 Feb 97 14:46:21 +0100 Subject: Re: DMC Originality >I love my car, but I'm not sacrificing getting a CD player or a third brakelight or a safer coolant bottle... I have to agree with you -- I'd rather not sacrifice comfort, reliability, or safety for the sake of originality. In saving for my future DeLorean, I have always budgeted extra for a turbo installation, an alarm, and a nice high-powered stereo. Now I'm planning to add a third brakelight (maybe one like the Acura NSX has -- a strip of LEDs the length of the car) and some other items like the coolant bottle, the Centerforce clutch, the factory luggage rack, etc. On the other hand, even though I want to customize MY DeLorean, I'm glad there are owners out there who want to keep things as original as possible. The concours is for those people -- who are helping to preserve the history of the marque. Imagine a time in the future when there may only be four or five pristine examples of the DeLorean as it came from the factory! What a crime that would be! I don't want to see people bicker over "show dogs" and "mongrels" -- there will always be purists, and there will always be customizers. If both groups have an equal reverence for the car, then there will always be DeLoreans on the streets. That way the DeLorean will stay in the public mind, and that will benefit EVERYBODY -- owner and enthusiast alike. - ------------------------ Brian Henderlong bhenderlong@wusf.usf.edu p.s. -- sorry for the diatribe! My first post to the list over a year ago was on this very topic, and it started a big, vehement thread! ------------------------------ From: "Michael E. Gaines" Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:49:04 -0500 Subject: Re: DeLorean Dealerships STANDLOR@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 97-02-19 23:27:13 EST, you write: ><< he point that I am attempting to make is that if you can't maintain aa D, or similar collectible, then perhaps the person simply should not own one. >> I've been thinking about this comment all day at work. My opinion is that this is a rather rude comment. Sorry, but what if someone just CAN'T keep it up? My car's in great shape, but should I feel like I have to 'prove' how I keep my car in good shape just so that I can be seen as a 'good owner'? I have a friend in Washington State who has one and really spent every last dime he could just to get it. Should he be looked down on because he doesn't have the financial capability to keep it in good shape? On the flip side, what does it matter if he WANTS to or not? Sorry, but I just don't have the same attitude that because a certain collectable has a value that people who don't take care of them should be reamed. I love my car, but I can't enforce those views on others. It's their money, their car, their life. Mike ------------------------------ From: raddad@cmn.net Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:13:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Cracked dash fix??? Further on cracked dashes -- While tinting the windshield is illegal, there is a new film covering that is perfectly clear. It stops (reflects back) 95% of UV rays and 55% of heat. This should be *GREAT* for our DMCs'. At my altitude, UV is a big concern and even with the airconditioner working well, our little interiors can heat up very fast. The film is more expensive than the tinted kind since the oxide used in it is silver based. Many stores and home in my area have installed it. I don't know of any cars yet, but I have seen the product advertised in The Robb Report. It probably comes under various names, the one I have seen installed here is "Solis". When parked I also use a very attractive sunshade I got through John Truscott. It is silver - matches the car and is a perfect fit. Comes with a case for storage when not in use. (No more of those ugly cardboard "Call Police" for our cars.) An ounce of prevention --oh, well, you know the rest. Dick Ryan The Rad Dad ------------------------------ From: Duke Bladorn Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:49:05 -0600 Subject: Compatible Muffler I was talking to Don Stegier at DMC and was asking him how I could get a MUCH louder exhaust and he said that some owners had used a muffler off of certain '80's model Camaro's. Has anyone here done this or know of another muffler that is compatable and would add alot of sound to the 'D? Has anyone used the 'test pipe' that replaces the catalyic converter and if so does this make much of a difference in the sound of the 'D? Thanks in advance, Duke Bladorn www.geocities.com/motorcity/8952/delorean.html ------------------------------ End of dmcnews-digest V2 #214 *****************************
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