Monday, January 25 1999 Volume 03 : Number 473
In this issue:
Re: DML: North California Delorean shop?
DML: Re: Wheel Bearings
DML: Re:DMC Tid-Bits
DML: N CA Repair Shop
Re: DML: N CA Repair Shop
DML: Inertia Switch, Lockzilla, Fanzilla
DML: JAMEEL'S PJ GRADY STORY
DML: Power Windows
DML: St. Louis Expo '99
DML: BTTF VIN
DML: Master brake cylinder
DML: P J Grady
DML: 1983 DMC for Sale
DML: Tire pressure.
DML: Fwd: Abandoned De Lorean photos
DML: changes by VIN
DML: DeLorean Services OFF LINE
DML: Re: Power Windows
Re: DML: changes by VIN
DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: changes by VIN
Re: DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: P J Grady
DML: Radar/Laser Detection
DML: RE: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
DML: Re: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
DML: EVENT: British Car Days, Las Cruces, New Mexico
DML:alabama owners
Re: DML: changes by VIN
DML: DeLorean at raffle - tickets available
Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection [long]
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:12:44 -0800 From: "lseiler@radiance.com" <lseiler@radiance.com> Subject: Re: DML: North California Delorean shop?
At 01:31 PM 1/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >I am going to need some somewhat major work done on my car. Has anyone >had any good experience with a shop or mechanic in Northern California, >specifically the SF Bay Area? I would rather take my car to a place >that has at least heard of DeLoreans before I bring them mine. Thanks
reply:
Hello Ben,
Yes there is a very good shop you can take your De Lorean to.
ACE Automotive in Berkeley CA. The do all my work and have complete manuals, parts list, and official DMC update information. They also have open contact with all the De Lorean parts suppliers. You can find the telephone number in the phone book.
Lee
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:33:24 -0500 From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: DML: Re: Wheel Bearings
Sean, No!
DMC Joe / DeLorean Services / dmcjoe@att.net
- ---------- > From: Sean Howley <tsuyoi@mindspring.com> > To: DMC News <dmcnews@world.std.com> > Subject: DML: Wheel Bearings > Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 5:55 PM > > This weekend, I am tearing down all of my brakes and replacing the = > fluid, caliper piston seals, brake lines (with SS braided), and cross = > drilled rotors. When I got the hub off, I noticed (it had not occurred = > to me before that it would be this way) that the wheel bearings are = > sealed bearings. > > My question: is there any lubrication that I need to provide for these = > bearings? > > Thanks, > > Sean Howley > VIN#2345
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:17:45 -0600 From: "roberthparker@hotmail.com" <roberthparker@hotmail.com> Subject: DML: Re:DMC Tid-Bits
Greetings to
all!! As I don't
own a computer, it is a challenge to retrieve & respond to the DML. So,
I've made a list of info I would like to share w/all. My
congrats to Lisa on becoming part of an "elite" group. On the oil ?---I
put an Amsoil filter & 10W40 in my DMC before I drove to the Vegas Conv.
Amsoil is the first synthetic oil, with a VERY long change
interval(approx. 30,000mi). All other synth. have a much shorter
interval. ck in yellow pages--Petroleum-Synth., or business pages under
AMSOIL-Ind. Dist. Good Stuff, Maynard!!! I'm also saving penneys for
an AMSOIL Life-time air filter---
~$25. Other
stuff: Charley Muffley in Bethleham, PA gave me the idea of installing
a solid SS clutch line. So, for $5 I got 10' of tubing, & after a bit
of bending, folding, mutilating , & 2 dble-flared ends ($3) I added
solid SS reliability---several years of trouble-free shifting ago.
I recently replaced the F.P. retaining boot & the 2 attached fuel
lines. After cking local hydraulic supply shops, I found the IDENTICAL
hi-press. fuel lines for about $2 for that 18" tube, compared to
$10.30-$10.80 per line. If I can help anyone with those parts, call me @
918-832-0634 (Very late) or e-mail--roberthparker@hotmail.com. BIG
price diff. Removal from the fittings is simple: Snugly vice the
fitting, pull back the 2 layers covering the plastic tube, apply flame
where tube covers fitting, BRIEFLY, & tug line off fitting. TAA-DAAAA!!
Attach new line with a dash of oil (or saliva works). Push all the way
on. If one can acquire a length of O2 tubing, I've
found that works quite well for bleeding brakes, clutches, & H2O pumps.
The end slides snugly over fittings for a clean job. RE:
climate control panel illum.-- Shortly after acquiring my DMC (7/82) I
had the dealer move the power wire from the ign. to the panel dimmer
switch. BIG diff. in panel temp. Now lights controlled by headlight
switch. I once received a ticket
for driving with my door open here in Tulsa. ("Reckless Driving" @ 0130
- --he must have been bored) Took it to court- beat it- carry dismissed
ticket in glove box for other times I have been stopped. I never exceed
street speed limit-40MPH. ("Hey, why is your door open?!!" "It's better
than T-TOPS!!") My little brother is an
Elect. Eng./ Gadgeteer & would enjoy tinkering with any non-functioning
Craig radios. I have schematic. Contact me to dispose of yours.
On departing, I have the remains of the dealer DMC parts inventory.
When I figure out how to do an attatchment, I'll list the parts I don't
plan to keep. If I may be of assistance, contact me as above. As I
do ~98% of my own repairs, I have collected a bit of Delorean know-how,
too. BTW, I had to have my fuel system overhauled, replacing everything
BUT the fuel distr. It was salvaged by soaking it in BG44K fuel system
cleaner. POWERFUL stuff, & not cheap. 1 can per ~20 gal. ea. 5000mi. @
~$16 per can. More good stuff, Maynard!!!! Enjoy the ride!!
I'll make more notes for
later. Robert VIN
6924 Spec. Tag AgBULIT
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:11:19 -0800 From: Matthew Peak <mpeak@ucla.edu> Subject: DML: N CA Repair Shop
Ben,
Check out a place called Continental Motors in Sunnyvale, just outside of San Jose. They specialize in Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, and service about a dozen Deloreans a year. I had them do over a thousand dollars worth of labor on my car in 1997, including Delorean specific/difficult work like replacing the window regulators. I am very pleased with the results. The owner, Rick, is friendly and he and his mechanic seem to know what they are doing. If you go, please let him know that I referred you.
Matt Peak
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:48:33 -0800 (PST) From: thomas reed <reedted@netcom.com> Subject: Re: DML: N CA Repair Shop
I have also visited Continental Motors, and I wish I could say I had as good an experience. I had over $1,000 worth of work done to the cooling system of my D and the problem was never solved- it didn't even get any better. I was never really satisfied with any of the work this shop did for me, and while the owner seemed honest and friendly, I can't recommend his skills as a Delorean mechanic. I later took my car to Delorean One, and they were able to fix it. Ed Bernstein said the parts Continental had installed were good parts, and installed well, but not Delorean parts. Since he was able to solve my problem when no one else could, I tend to trust his opinion. If you really want your car fixed, Delorean One can do the job, but it'll cost you. I think it's worth the extra $$$.
Ed Reed VIN 3117 > >Ben, > >Check out a place called Continental Motors in Sunnyvale, just outside of >San Jose. They specialize in Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, >and service about a dozen Deloreans a year. I had them do over a thousand >dollars worth of labor on my car in 1997, including Delorean >specific/difficult work like replacing the window regulators. I am very >pleased with the results. The owner, Rick, is friendly and he and his >mechanic seem to know what they are doing. If you go, please let him >know that I referred you. > >Matt Peak
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:38:18 -0500 From: "R. Starling" <doctor280@email.msn.com> Subject: DML: Inertia Switch, Lockzilla, Fanzilla
Thanks to everyone for the help with the inertia switch wiring. My switch has been relocated to the bracket that holds the service counter, so I got just a little confused. But hey I got the thing working and I feel safer knowing that it is working. Thank you Steve Wynne for your help on this problem. Also, today I installed Lockzilla and Fanzilla. I am so pleased with Rob's products, that I can hardly contain myself. I have got working door locks now, something that I did not have. Also Rob Grady took the time over the phone to help me locate the reason my fans started running all the time again. Yes another bad temp. sending switch. My Delorean has ate four of these things in the past 18 months. Rob sent me a Volvo sending switch that should take care of this problem for good. Got to try out the AC today (65 degrees outside) with the Fanzilla installed in the D. Let me tell you that all the good things that you have heard about this unit are true and if you dont have it, get it. The staging of the fans makes the D so much more enjoyable to drive. Heck on the highway I can not even tell that the AC is even cycling anymore. Smooth as glass. Two thumbs up!!! Thanks Rob. Robert Starling Vin#5252
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:36:23 +1100 From: Lance Haslewood <lanceh@zeta.org.au> Subject: DML: JAMEEL'S PJ GRADY STORY
I thoroughly enjoyed Jameel's article and pictures of PJ Gradys'. Jameel was obviously very satisfied with Rob's workmanship keen to promote it. Both my son and I attended the DeLorean Expo in LA last September which we thoroughly enjoyed, especially the presentation by Rob. Having met Rob and listening to his technical expertise, I somewhat envisaged his business to be in a large-type premises with plenty of staff. To the contrary ... Jameel's photos portray rather small, quaint and personalised enterprise. It's these small and personalised services which always offer the best service and customer support. Having read the numerous messages in support of Rob (and having met him personally), I can fully understand why Rob is so popular.
Recently my son ordered replacement gas struts for our DeLorean from Rob. We had them in a matter of days.
While in LA, I visited Don Steger's DMC Motor Centre. His business is somewhat similar to Rob's. Don has to park most of his cars on the street each day. The day I was there, there were DeLoreans parked on both sides of the street, probably about ten in all.
If readers are interested, perhaps I can post a few photos of Don's premises (with his concurrence).
Regards,
Lance Haslewood
Australia
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:40:34 EST From: Jimbo0946@aol.com Subject: DML: Power Windows
To all DMLer's
I am ahaving a little trouble with the power windows in my D.
First,
the passenger side does not work at all. Second, the driver side will go
down, but not up. DMCJOE suggested I use contact spray on the contacts.
Before I do anything, I just want to make sure that I am doing it right.
I
pulled the power window switch up from the console. Do I spray the
contact
spray on the metal that is visible on the switch? Also, how do you take
off
the interior door panel? I would really like to know. Any help will be
appreciated. Thanks in advance.
JimmyC VIN#15880
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:05:27 -0700 From: scottmueller@zebra.net (Scott Mueller) Subject: DML: St. Louis Expo '99
We are scheduling our vacation time for this year. We are trying to decide if we will attend the DOA Expo '99 in St. Louis.
Who on the list is planning to attend?
It would be more fun for me if I knew that there would be a large group of DMCNEWS members there.
Scott Mueller
Mobile, AL
1981/002981 DOA-5031 DMCNEWS
Contact me about the "Deep South DeLorean Owners Club"
www.zebra.net/~scottmueller/Web%20Page/aaanothe.htm
Remember April 3, 1999 - Camillia Classic Car Show in Mobile Alabama May 1, 1999 - Blount British Car Show, Townsend TN
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:14:14 -0500 From: Brian Henderlong <bhenderlong@mindspring.com> Subject: DML: BTTF VIN
Hey, everyone --
During a trip this weekend to Universal Studios in Orlando, a generous security guard let me jot down the VIN of the DeLorean parked outside the BTTF ride...
SCEDT26TXBD006475
The BTTF wires on the dashboard were partially covering the VIN plate, making it hard to tell whether the 'X' was really an 'X' or an '8.' I hope this information is either helpful or interesting to someone!
Take care,
Brian Henderlong HFO (Hopeful Future Owner) mailto:bhenderlong@mindspring.com
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 05:20:07 EST From: Msstrygrl@aol.com Subject: DML: Master brake cylinder
>>I also own a Triumph and had the same problem with pitting of the master cylinder. I sent the master to "Apple Hydraulics" and they re-sleeved it with stainless steel.<<
I did call "Apple Hydraulics" and they said they could re-sleeve my master brake cylinder for about seventy dollars. That idea appealed to me, except that I'd have to be without the use of my car for quite awhile (it was going to take about a week and a half including shipping time) and as a new owner I just couldn't be patient. So instead my friend and I went to a brake place in S.F. called "Quality Brake Supply" which we were told had a large inventory of brake parts for old cars. We brought the old brake cylinder with us and left it with the brake guy for an hour, while he searched through his books. He came up with one which he had in stock that was an almost precise match to the Ds Girling/Lucus. It was designed for the '73 Volvo 140 series. It was brand new, and cost $85. Getting it mounted did take some minor adjustments but we did get it on and working and it cured my sinking brake pedal problem.
For anyone interested, the number of Apple Hydraulics is 1-800-882-7753. (I didn't ask, but I'd guess they probably sleeve clutch cylinders as well.)
Lisa VIN 1353 Produced May '81
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:21:03 EST From: JAlbin@aol.com Subject: DML: P J Grady
Several years ago I had a tough decision to make, either junk the DMC-12 or make a major investment in refurbishing it. I did three phone interviews, Houston, LA, and New York (Robb). Robb gave me the best phone answers, no hard sell. Although I live in Washington DC, I worked in New York at the time so I took the Long Island Railroad from Manhatten out to Robb's Shop.
His wife Debbie picked me up at the station and drove me to the shop. I checked it out and talked with Robb for about two hours. He picked up my car about six weeks later.
It was about four months before Robb started on my car and six months (at least) before he finished and that was frustrating. But Rob is a small businessman and has to sandwich in the small and local jobs to keep the cash flow positive.
He used only quality parts including some replacement "zilla" componets which he designed himself. He is not cheap, but the work quality is excellent. Since I've gotten my car back, Robb has been free and generous with his advise to me and the local mechanic who looks after my car.
I'd recommend Robb to anyone considering major surgery to their "D" car.
Jim Albin
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:29:54 -0600 From: Thomas Bohmier <Bohmier@sprintmail.com> Subject: DML: 1983 DMC for Sale
Members and Lurkers:
Here is your opportunity to have one of the last DMC's manufactured. I want to buy "another toy" and I don't have enough room!
As many of you know, there were not many 1983 models made and their value is traditionally higher, based upon manufacturing improvements.
Here is the information on my extremely well maintained and carefully diven car:
* 1983 Model - Manufactured in August 1992 (Vin 15,XXX)
* Gray Interior (seats look like new because they have been covered
in sheep skin covers for long time)
* No Cracked Dash or Binnacle (after market dash cover in place - a
perfectionist would re-color dash, due to sun fade)
* Five Speed (new master cylinder and adjustments)
* New Cooling Fan
* DMC Radio in Box - new high power JVC "shaft" mount radio (looks
original)
* Installed 3 1/2" Infiniti speakers in dash to replace front ASI
speakers
* Electric Rear Fender Antenna
* Yokohoma Tires - Factory Originals Included too (for concourse
purposes)
* Spare Rear Wheel
* Extensive Service Manual (Delorean One and DMCA combined)
* No electrical "ghosts and gremlins"
* Never had a "starting problem" or "left stranded"
* Never Wrecked
* Extremely Clean Car and next step is Concourse restoration
* 62,500 +/- miles
* Serviced, Updated and Preventative Maintenance done by DMC Houston
7/98 ($5,000.00 bill)
* Estimated value, by Steve Wynne of DMC Houston, of $20,000.00 (need
to fix a "ding" behind rear wheel)
* First $16,000.00 takes it home!
I am usually a moving target and only get into e-mail once or twice a week. Therefore you should page me @ 214-249-8436 for information.
Thomas Bohmier Dallas, Texas
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:19:49 -0800 From: "Robert Rooney" <DMCVegas@ix.netcom.com> Subject: DML: Tire pressure.
Out of curiousity, how accureate is the odometer & the spedometer in relation to tire pressure? Since the probe for both is located directly on the wheel itself (and not in the tranny), what should be the average pressure for the tire to get an accurate reading? i.e. underinflated tire = higher milage & speed readout, while overinflated tire = less miles on the odometer & lower mph on the speedo. Just curious...
- -Robert
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 99 18:36:09 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: Fwd: Abandoned De Lorean photos
- ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/21 12:46 AM Received: 01/20 6:18 PM From: Graham Povey, graham@gspovey.demon.co.uk
The subscribers to your mailing list may be interested in two photos I recently put on my website.
I came across the car September last year in a large town in the Netherlands. Some locals I spoke to told me it had been there a year and showed me it was unlocked by opening the doors.
You can find the photos at:
http://www.gspovey.demon.co.uk/garage/wrench.htm
- -- Graham Povey
1980 TVR Taimar 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
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Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:58:51 +0000 From: "darryl@techline.com" <darryl@techline.com> Subject: DML: changes by VIN
There may not have been a listing of changes by VIN put out by the factory, but some 12 years ago I put one together based on the various update bulletins and notations in the parts book. Just bear in mind that due to many factors including work done at the Quality Assurance Centers and possibly by former owners, this list is far from authoritative. But its a place to start.
DMC Production Changes (from best available data) Starting at VIN: 763 +/- changed clutch, throwout bearing, clutch fork 1201 added #106731 vinyl coated wiring clips 1234 changed to long coolant hoses at water pump 1346 added gaiter (boot) above steering column 1751 changed steering rack 1792 changed headliners 1884 changed to silver wheels 1964 changed style of A/C face plate 2333-5600 ball joint recall 2680 changed drive axle flange from #100171 to #110539 2711 changed to windshield without antenna 3200 hood without flap (from #109096 to #109134) 3200 non-locking gas cap #110129 3600 changed fascias from #100310 & 100311 to #110122 & 1101213 3850 temp switch retaining clip from #108633 to #110177 4080 A/C freon charge reduced from 2.75 lb to 2.2 lb 4188 door locks #101419, keys #106244, 109100 & A109100 changed to door locks #110192 and complete lock set #108003 4539 changed to Motorola alternator #110101 4783 added fuel tank baffle #110155 4817 changed A/T shift lever to #110095 5179 changed lower speedo cable from #101412 to shorter #111412 5238 changed fuel guage sender from #105183 to #110555 5930 changed mirrors from #100586 & 100587 to #110418 & 110419 5993 door pull straps moved rearward 6093 changed door panels from #100428 & 100429 (gray) and #110170 & 110171 (black) to #110251 & 110252 (gray) and #110676 & 110677 (black) 6159 eliminated clock on console 10001 changed to fuel pump #110085. Use #110594 & 110589 fitting and nut to retrofit to '81s 10001 late style muffler 10001 flat hood #109245 10305 added radio suppressant coil wire 10579 changed carpets, trim board below rear window 11673 changed coil cover
Darryl Tinnerstet Specialty Automotive 4 LaBelle Lane McCleary, WA 98557 PH: 360-495-4640 FAX: 360-495-4680
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:49:01 -0500 From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: DML: DeLorean Services OFF LINE
TO ALL,
WE WILL BE OFF-LINE FOR TRANSMITTER MAINTENANCE FROM 1:00 AM JAN 25 UNTIL THURSDAY 10:00 AM JAN. 28.
DMC Joe / DeLorean Services / dmcjoe@att.net
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:59:28 -0500 From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: DML: Re: Power Windows
Jimmy, You do not have to remove the switch to clean it, only remove the switch cover. When you pull off the switch cover you will see the exposed contacts. Spray the contacts with plenty of cleaner, replace the cover and operate the switch several times to help clean the switch contacts.
DMC Joe / DeLorean Services / dmcjoe@att.net
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:06:54 EST From: ShadowDMC@aol.com Subject: Re: DML: changes by VIN
In a message dated 1/25/99 12:57:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, darryl@techline.com writes:
<< 6159 eliminated clock on console >>
I have VIN 06882 and my car has a clock. BTW while on this subject what raido was originally on this car the Craig or the ASI?
Thanks, Orlando Lopez #06882
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:43:38 -0500 From: Mike Substelny <msubstel@lorainccc.edu> Subject: DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
Scott Mueller asked if any of us are planning to go to the DOA Expo in St. Louis.
Although it is a little early for many of us to make the committment, as of now my wife and I do plan to be there (pending resolution of a schedule conflict with family business). We *will* be driving our DeLorean this year. There will probably be a decent sized caravan of DeLoreans from Ohio to Missouri.
- - Mike Substelny
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:59:50 -0700 From: raddad@cmn.net Subject: Re: DML: changes by VIN
I can see the number of responses to this thread. However, it may be worthwhile to get clear records. My 81 had a console clock and it was 6530.
Dick Ryan
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:03:17 -0700 From: raddad@cmn.net Subject: Re: DML: Attending Expo in St. Louis
My primary DeLorean trip for 1999, along with several other D owners, will be a two week excursion to Banff. However, that is in August. So, perhaps between August and October I can save enough to attend the Expo. Just not sure yet.
Dick Ryan
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:53:06 -0500 From: Marc A Levy <malevy@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: P J Grady
Rob's labor rates are less expensive than most new car dealers... A quality restoration requires many hours, and as we all know Delorean parts are generally more expensive than your "Daily Driver", Yet still less expensive than most "Exotics".
It is because of rob's reasonable rates that I sometimes will choose to let him do work that I could do myself. It saves me aggravation, and I trust Rob (and Pat) to always do the job right!
JAlbin@aol.com wrote: <SNIP> > he designed himself. He is not cheap, but the work quality is excellent. > Since I've gotten my car back, Robb has been free and generous with his <SNIP>
- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:23:45 EST From: Jdsjlv@aol.com Subject: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
I was wondering if anyone out there knows the effects police radar and laser have on the DeLorean? I heard that radar waves become scrambled due to the brushed surface of the DeLorean. Does the low profile of the car give it the stealth effect? At 5:30 this morning I was driving on the Merritt Parkway and was hit with Laser (or so my radar detector said). I was going 70 in a 55, but wasn't pulled over. As I passed the cop, I noticed his head follow my D as I passed him, so I am sure he was curious. In Connecticut, especially at 5:30 in the morning on the Merritt Parkway, state troopers will pull you over. So I wonder, are our cars immune or am I just lucky (I have yet to be pulled over and have been targeted with radar before)?
Joshua Schwartz Trumbull, CT '001292
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:02:06 -0600 From: "Bixby, Web" <wbixby@kclife.com> Subject: DML: RE: Attending Expo in St. Louis
I will also be going to the EXPO in St Louis.
While the attendance in Los Angles and Colorado EXPO's these past two years have been disappointing I would expect that the attendance in St Louis will be much better. Hopefully more like The Nashville EXPO in '96.
Who knows, maybe Mr. Espey will even show us where he saw his first Delorean (being from the St Louis area). How about it James?
Web Bixby VIN 1049
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:13:48 -0500 (EST) From: William T Wilson <fluffy@snurgle.org> Subject: Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 Jdsjlv@aol.com wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone out there knows the effects police radar and > laser have on the DeLorean? I heard that radar waves become scrambled > due to the brushed surface of the DeLorean. Does the low profile of the > car give it the stealth effect? At 5:30 this morning I was driving on > the Merritt Parkway
Although the car does have a lower than average radar cross section, it'll still show up on radar. A number of things contribute to the low radar profile:
Low physical height Mostly plastic front fascia Engine in rear Fiberglass body structure Angled body panels
However, there is still plenty of radar signature to detect you. In particular, the headlights will reflect like crazy. You will be harder to pick up than a Suburban, probably in the same class with any other low profile sports car like an RX7, or a Corvette. The brushed surface of the stainless will have no effect on the radar. Just about any metal will show up on radar.
In particular, a car such as the DeLorean will be very hard to see with radar if there is any amount of traffic. Just about anything has a larger radar signature than you, and most radar guns will identify only the largest target in rance. Some will detect both the largest and fastest, so don't think you're safe unless you are totally obscured behind a giant object like a semi trailer.
Laser is a little different. It works as a point source of light and will reflect off anything. Most policemen will aim at the license plate or the headlights, both of which are quite prominent on the DeLorean.
I think he probably just let you go. Maybe he was feeling nice or couldn't get his engine started or something. Most likely he was just looking at the DeLorean, not looking at you wondering why he couldn't find you on his laser gun.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 17:41:01 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: Re: Attending Expo in St. Louis
On 1/26/99 12:02 AM, Web Bixby shared these fine thoughts...
>I will also be going to the EXPO in St Louis. > >While the attendance in Los Angles and Colorado EXPO's these past two years >have been disappointing I would expect that the attendance in St Louis will >be much better. Hopefully more like The Nashville EXPO in '96. > >Who knows, maybe Mr. Espey will even show us where he saw his first Delorean >(being from the St Louis area). How about it James?
At this point I am planning on attending the St. Louis Expo. Once my mother, who still lives in STL, found out I had no choice but to attend.
As to where I saw my first Delorean, I first saw it in a book, "Elite Cars". My first in person sighting was at the local South St. Louis dealer, Don Darr Pontiac/Mazda. It was torn down a few years ago to build a hardware store.
James Espey #10570
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:34:42 EST From: KayoOng@aol.com Subject: Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection
Joshua,
NO. The DeLorean is not invisible or undetectable to laser radar. You are lucky that the trooper didn't pull you over.
As far as the stainless steel on the DeLorean diffusing, deflecting or diffracting the laser radar beams, I don't think so.
Let me share with you an event that took place just 2 months ago back in November 1998 (starting the Holiday Season). Since you are in Connecticut you are not too far from NYC and the Westchester County. There are a lot of troopers and radar speed traps. There is a little less presently, but they are still there.
I have the Valentine One radar detector and system. It is one of the best that is currently available. My radar detector is always being triggered by radar from the troopers and the police in my travels.
Back in November I was going south on the NY State Thruway 87. I was heading back to NYC. My radar detector was picking up some strange signal that was triggering the unit. I was not familiar with this "new" noise it was emitting. Was my unit going on the blink?
The audio and visual the Valentine One was generating was a strange one. The radar signal that it was picking up was hardly detectable because I was on a curve highway. I did slowed down to 55 to 60 MPH.
The second I was around the bend, THE VALENTINE ONE BLARED OUT WITH THE STRANGEST SOUND AND THE PANEL LIT UP LIKE IT HAS NEVER DONE SO BEFORE, AND THERE HE WAS. A TROOPER! I can see the trooper a 1/2 mile away taking a read at all of us until we passed. He was on the right side of the road with a laser gun aimed all of us. He was picking out all the vehicles. One vehicle at a time starting from the left hand lane. Next, the center lane and last the right hand lane. I was on the right hand lane. We were all traveling at 65-70 MPH a no-no for the speed limit is 55 MPH. He didn't stop any of us. Lucky us for all of us. Maybe we were in a tolerable limit???
Since that day, I still have encountered many radar traps. They were all regular bands so there is plenty of warning before hand with the Valentine One unit. Even with the Valentine One, it is not immune to laser. It just picks it up at a farther distance.
I was told by law enforcement agents who uses laser type of equipment and by my friends who were caught by the laser system. If a Laser system does detects you, it is very accurate and too late to do anything. Slowing down during the laser guns reading do help. You WILL get a violation for speeding period! The laser gun's picks up your speed at that moment, records its with a photograph of car, a section of your license plate blown up with the speed you are traveling at with the time and date of occurrence.
So there you have it.
Anyone else out with experience or knowledge they would like to share on this laser radar subject?
Kayo Ong #05508 Lic. 9D NY
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 19:10:43 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: EVENT: British Car Days, Las Cruces, New Mexico
British Car Days 1999
Las Cruces, NM April 23-25, 1999
Friday Meet & Greet, Saturday show on the Mesilla toen plaza, Sunday rallye, brunch and awards ceremony.
For complete information and registration package, contact:
George Duckworth (505) 526-2318 email: gclyde1@aol.com Nancy Mackey (505) 524-8887 email: efmackey@lascruces.com
http://members.aol.com/bmcsnm
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I will be attending this event and encourage any other DML'ers in the area to join me.
James Espey #10570
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:58:05 EST From: V102trbo@aol.com Subject: DML:alabama owners
is there any alabama delorean owners on the DML , if so email me
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:11:17 EST From: Ad8302@aol.com Subject: Re: DML: changes by VIN
Joe has been over this before....Some cars were sent to qaulity assurance centers and takin apart and refitted...some parts did not find there way back to the 'original' car, however this list is VERY close to accurate.
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 19:55:22 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: DeLorean at raffle - tickets available
The Pius XI High School "Touch of Class" auction and raffle informs me that they are now ready to sell tickets. This is the raffle that was mentioned last month which has a 1981 DeLorean as first prize. There are also a total of (9) other cash prizes for the runners-up.
Tickets are $40 each or 3 for $100. Cash, check, VISA and MasterCard are accepted. Contact Pius at (414) 290-8172 or by fax at (414) 290-7001. They have a website at www.piusxi.org for more details.
James Espey #10570
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:26:32 -0500 (EST) From: William T Wilson <fluffy@snurgle.org> Subject: Re: DML: Radar/Laser Detection [long]
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 KayoOng@aol.com wrote:
> Anyone else out with experience or knowledge they would like to share on > this laser radar subject?
Well, since you asked.... <brain dump mode on>
Laser and radar work on the same principles, which is the doppler effect. The police car is stationary and the nearby cars are moving. By measuring the change in frequency of the radar/laser reflection as it comes back they can tell how fast you are going. The only difference is that laser uses an infrared beam which is just outside the visible spectrum (so as not to cause glare if he accidentally shoots you in the eye) and is very similar to the kind of laser used in a CD player. It is not very powerful and doesn't need to be since the average laser gun has range equal or greater than the range at which the policeman can aim it. Radar on the other hand, uses regular old microwave radar.
Since the laser beam is emitted by a laser, it is extremely tightly focused. At typical detection distances (1/4 mile or so) the beam has spread out only to a few feet wide. On a small car like the DeLorean you can not worry about this, but on a large vehicle like a Suburban, Ram, Bronco, etc. you will frequently need to use two laser detectors to ensure you detect a laser beam.
Because of this narrowness, it is difficult to detect a laser beam until it hits you. Sometimes, you will pick up a reflection, or a laser beam aimed at a car in front of you will "spread" into your detection zone. One disadvantage to laser for the policeman is that they take some effort aiming compared to a radar gun. He must line up his crosshairs right on your license plate, headlight, reflector, etc. This also requires a laser gun to be very precisely calibrated (if you ever go to court over this, be sure to make them haul out the calibration records). And, it means that you will never encounter a policeman sitting there eating a donut and trolling for speeders. He has to use the laser gun the way he's supposed to use a radar gun - look for a speeder, then use the laser to confirm the speed.
Radar guns on the other hand will broadcast their energy all over the place. You can hear them from a mile away. "Instant On" radar is a relatively recent technology that only activates for a few seconds, just long enough to get a reading. Obviously, you can't hear these coming like the continuous wave, but like laser it requires the policeman to pay more attention, and if he uses it at all, you'll pick it up at the same range as a CW radar gun. Deadly on long, mostly empty highways.
Countermeasures: The only real, legal, countermeasure is to not speed. There are some devices which claim to "jam" radar detectors. Rocky Mountain Radar's "phazer" is probably the most common. Do not waste your money, these do not work. The only way to "jam" a radar gun is with an active radar jammer. These are easy to build but illegal by FCC regulations and most state laws. Laser jammers are not illegal per se (FCC does not regulate this portion of the spectrum) however, most places have laws against "interfering with a policeman in the course of his duty" or some such and use of a jammer could fall under these laws. Other devices, like the 'stealth bra', are similarly useless. They may reduce your detection range by a small amount, but not worth the money. If they really worked, the Air Force would just cover the stealth bomber with this stuff and not have to worry about all the exotic technology.
Unfortunately, laser is much harder to jam. Again, this is because it is a very narrow beam. In order to effectively jam a laser at long range, you would have to point a similar laser beam right at the policeman, or pump out an excessive amount of power. Interestingly, unlike radar, it is easier to jam a laser at close range than at long range.
Laser is not on "judicial notice" in many areas. That means that if you fight it in court, you get to challenge the technology too. They will have to bring in expert witnesses, etc. to prove the ticket. And, laser is not in very widespread use - maybe 10% of speed detection systems are laser, and they are confined to some states.
There are some devices that claim to protect you from laser. There are some which are fairly effective. Note that none of these will make you invisible or even appreciably reduce detection range, but they will make the policeman retarget his laser, giving you a chance to slow down. License plate covers are the easiest. However, they may be illegal in your area. Some license plates are more reflective than others, and low-reflectivity ones will cut your detection range by a great deal. The ancient blue and yellow California plates, as well as the "green mountain" Colorado plates are quite nonreflective. Of course, some states don't require front plates. :} Headlight covers are another way to cut down laser emissions and are generally legal.
Other things: Some laser and radar guns will fail to lock on to you if you are accelerating or decelerating sharply. Obviously, decelerating is the wiser choice, unless you want 'reckless driving' to go along with your speeding ticket. Not all of them have this shortcoming. If a policeman writes you a ticket and you don't think you deserve it, be sure to ask to see the radar gun. If you ask, he has to show it to you, and if he can't produce it (because he already cleared the reading, or because it is a bogus ticket) you can probably win in court. Also carry a camera, and a tape recorder. You'll need these for the aforementioned defense. Be sure you ask the policeman before you use either of them, just out of courtesy, also it is illegal in some states to tape a conversation without knowledge of both parties. Other radar guns are equipped with "radar detector detectors." Mostly these are found in places where radar detectors are illegal. Yes, these do work and they can detect your radar detector, sometimes even if it's off, so if you're traveling through one of those states, put it in the trunk. I don't know of any states where possession of a detector is illegal, only use is illegal, and as far as I know that's only in DC and Virginia. Laser and radar guns also will only work if you are heading directly toward them. And, the farther away from the road a policeman is, the lower the reading on his gun.
Laser and radar technology could fill a whole bookshelf. I think I'm done for now. :}
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End of dmcnews-digest V3 #473 *****************************
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