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Monday, 29 July 1996 Volume 02 : Number 147
In this issue:
Automatic Deloreans
Re: Automatic Deloreans
Fuel Line Replacement
Call to action!
Creeping Brake Pedal
Re: Fuel Line Replacement
Re: Insurance for DeLorean in NY/Connecticut area.
Re: Creeping Brake Pedal
Automatics, Sticks, Insurance, and Fieros
Re: Creeping Brake Pedal
Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
DMC Service Facilities
Re: DMC Service Facilities
Craig Radio Available
Brake Pedal Travel Distance
Clutch Replacement
Re: Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
Re: Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
Slipping clutch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David_Hutchinson/SSI1.SSI1(AT)notes-gw.tus.ssi1
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:30:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Automatic Deloreans
>Can one generally expect automatic DeLoreans to
>last as long mechanically as standard-shift DeLoreans?
My experience (and from reading this mail list) is that no
Deloreans last without a lot of work (or money) from the
owner. As for the comparison between auto and manual,
look at the back mailing lists and notice how many people
have replaced their clutch at such low miles. So clearly
the manual transmission is not problem free (and by the
way, it is a lot easier to replace a computer/governor
assembly compared to a clutch, less then 5 hours work).
Also, this question of yours has brought up a lot of
discussion about performance comparison between the
automatic and manual. When I went out to buy my
Delorean I test drove mostly manuals before buying my
automatic. The performance of both are low and I
bought the automatic since it had the best
price/condition tradeoff. Why worry about performance
impact of a transmission when the 0-60 time is around 10
seconds even with a manual? That's really slow.
Let's face it, the Delorean's main feature is they are very
interesting, neat looking cars. Reliability and performance
are not its strong points. So my advice is go out and buy
a Delorean with as little cosmetic damage and as little
miles as you can afford independent of the transmission
type.
------------------------------
From: mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:01:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Automatic Deloreans
David wrote:
>My experience (and from reading this mail list) is that no
>Deloreans last without a lot of work (or money) from the
>owner. As for the comparison between auto and manual,
>look at the back mailing lists and notice how many people
>have replaced their clutch at such low miles. So clearly
Everyone has a different definition of "a lot of work (or money)". While
you didn't directly say that DeLorean's are problematic, I'm afraid
that's what many people will interpret. To buy any DeLorean out there
today is little different from buying ANY 15 year old used car. They
almost ALL need something. I bought my DeLorean for about $13,000, and
I've put approximately $1,500 in it since then...and about 20,000 miles.
I'll put another 3,000+ just going from Pheonix to Nashville and back
this year.
Preventative maintenance is ALWAYS cheaper than a repair. True, some
things will always break, but many of the problems we're seeing on
DeLoreans in the used car market today are owner-induced. Several DOA
members (and others, I'm sure) have upwards of 150-200,000 miles on their
DeLoreans. To say that "no Deloreans last without a lot of work (or
money) from the
owner" is just plain inaccurate.
James Espey
List-rattler
------------------------------
From: s4ychin(AT)srv.PacBell.COM
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:51:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Fuel Line Replacement
My DMC has a fuel leak under the car? How do you replace the fuel lines
located under the car? There is very little room to work with. I tried
using a open ended wrench, but was unable to move the wrench much. Is
there
a special tool available?
Thanks,
Stan Chin
s4ychin(AT)srv.PacBell.COM
------------------------------
From: mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:51:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Call to action!
The DeLorean Mailing List, in both the live and digest versions, has
approximately 280 subscribers, and has never gotten much over that
number. If there are 8,000 DeLoreans left out there, and 8,000 non-owner
enthusiasts, than means we have less than 2% of these people on our list.
My goal is to hit 500 subscribers (still only about 3% of the "market")
by the end of the year. I need your help to do this.
Many of you have web pages (or have been meaning to make one, Hank!) and
I would ask that you put a link from your page to the DMC-News Home page:
http://www.dmcnews.com
I'd also like to ask those of you involved in a DeLorean club/group in
your part of the world to encourage your friends to subscribe also.
Many of you are active in the newsgroups (i.e. rec.auto.XXXX), talk the
up the DeLorean and the mailing list there, too. Put it in your sig file!
Forward me URL's and examples of where you've "spread" the word, and I'll
make sure you get a mention on the DMC-News Home Page. This is the single
best source on the internet for DeLorean-related information, let's keep
it growing!
Thanks you all!
James Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com
------------------------------
From: Blarness(AT)aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:58:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Creeping Brake Pedal
Whenever I press the brake (standing still OR moving)
the pedal will hold for about two seconds and then
slowly creep toward the floor as if I had a line open.
They never reach the floor though. And the car does
stop.
The lines may need bled but the brakes hold first before
they slowly float downward.
There are NO signs of leaking fluid and the level
in the reservoir does not diminish.
The brake pads are still good on all four wheels, but I
have never been happy with the distance it takes to
stop the car. It doesn't really have what I would
consider "good" brakes.
I cannot confirm this, but I also suspect my back
brakes are not coming on anywhere like they should.
Hoping to start somewhere,
- -C2
#3876
------------------------------
From: Chase Clark, stormrider(AT)socketis.net
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Fuel Line Replacement
>My DMC has a fuel leak under the car? How do you replace the fuel lines
>located under the car?
Stan:
Are you trying to replace the metal fuel lines or the fuel hoses? When I
replaced my fuel pump, Ialso replaced most of the old intake/return pipes
from the metal lines to the top of the fuel pump. I also was unable to get
the couplers to budge. In lieu of having someone else attempt it, I got a
pair of inline couplers and spliced the new lines into a six-inch piece of
the old lines. More than 5,000 miles later (I think. Who knows for certain
with the broken odometer.) and all appears fine.
As with every British car I've ever worked on, nmuts and bolts seem to
rust
together or the metalds react on a molecular level and freeze up. Maybe
that is common of all cars .. I am not certain.
~ Chase
------------------------------
From: Marvin S.Sterling, marv930(AT)ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:58:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Insurance for DeLorean in NY/Connecticut area.
At 09:39 AM 7/26/96 -0400, you wrote:
>My brother (living in Stamford/Connecticut) is purchasing an DeLorean for
>me.
>We found a great car in the NY area.
>When the car is ready and in good shape, it will be shipped to The
>Netherlands. In the
>meanwhile the car must be insured ofcourse. The car will be driven also.
>At the moment we find difficulties in getting the car insured for
>differrent reasons
>(too high risk, don't know the car, not in Connecticut, etc, etc.)
>Can anyone advise me where to get the DeLorean insured in the
>Connecticut/NY area?
>(prefence ofcourse an collector's insurance).
>And - if possible - what do you pay for the insurance/conditions (milage,
>3 cars etc,
>etc.).
>
>I already heard that some DeLoreans are insured at HAGARTY and STATE
>FARM. Does anyone
>have telephone numbers or addresses for me?
>
>Mario Perotti
>The Netherlands
>E-Mail: perotti(AT)pi.net
>
- ------------------------------------------divider
Allstate will insure the car ... they were one of the original investors
in
the development of the car. If you do not plan on driving the car more
than
2500 or 5000 miles per year you could try Leland West Brokers, Inc at
209-431-8282
Good luck,
Marv Sterling vin # 16000
------------------------------
From: Chris P.Rabalais, ciscorp(AT)primenet.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 14:28:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Creeping Brake Pedal
- ----------
> From: Blarness(AT)aol.com
> To: DMC.News(AT)europe.std.com; DMCNews(AT)world.std.com
> Subject: Creeping Brake Pedal
> Date: Saturday, July 27, 1996 7:58 AM
>
>
> Whenever I press the brake (standing still OR moving)
> the pedal will hold for about two seconds and then
> slowly creep toward the floor as if I had a line open.
> They never reach the floor though. And the car does
> stop.
> [snip]
> I cannot confirm this, but I also suspect my back
> brakes are not coming on anywhere like they should.
>
> Hoping to start somewhere,
> -C2
> #3876
Sounds like the brake master cylinder....
Chris Rabalais
#2860
------------------------------
From: Ray Haug, Raymond_Haug(AT)lamg.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:17:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Automatics, Sticks, Insurance, and Fieros
OK, DeLorean (and Fiero) enthusiasts its about time that I get my 2 cents
worth of info into the ring. Fortunately, I am the proud owner of an '81
DeLorean stick, and '83 DeLorean automatic, and 'a bright red '88 Fiero GT
with gold spoke wheels, rear wing, sun roof, and tan leather interior. I
must honestly say that I LOVE them ALL. They all have their 'quirks',
but if
ANY ONE of them turn you on, BUY IT and just enjoy every minute of the
time
you spend driving and tinkering with it. They are ALL GREAT FUN SPORTY
CARS!!
Now the details:
'81 DeLorean, #3153, is a 5 speed with almost 50,000 miles and had 33,000
miles when I bought it 9 years ago. I immediately had it lowered by Don
Steger after attending a DeLorean Owners Association event and seeing how
great the car looks that way. I had it initially inspected by Stephen
Wynne
when he was with DeLorean One, he gave it the buy sign. I drive it
primarily
1 weekend a month and to DeLorean events, It has been a realitively
trouble
free car with the following major repairs - new water pump and new head
gaskets(and machined heads) after I let the car set for about 9 months and
the glycol became like jello, new air conditioning compressor (operate
your
unit winter and summer), new tires, new fuel accumulator, and new
headliners
(twice). The original owner replaced the clutch line with the stainless
steel braided line, and all upgrades have been done to it. I do not
drive it
hard, and it is a Great Touring car on the open road. I do not like it
around
heavy traffic, because of the need to do frequent shifting, and the blind
spots due to the heavy upper structure. It always gets the stares from
those
on the road and pedestrians, especially the youth. I will most likely
sell
this car later this year, so if you are in the Los Angeles area and
interested give me a call.
'83 DeLorean, #16348, is a automatic with almost 30,000 miles on it and
had
25,000 miles when I bought it four years ago. I wanted this car
specifically because their were only 918 of the '83's produced vs 6,539
of
the '81's, and my wife can (and does occasionally) drive the automatic.
The
car came with a removable steering wheel, and external transmission oil
cooler, the previous owner had installed (articles in old issues of
DeLorean
World). I have replaced CV joint boots, headliner, and struts all
around.
This has been the preferred car to drive around the Los Angeles area in
traffic. Although it is not lowered, I plan to keep it stock, I do like
the
lowered look better. The leather seats, and dash are absolutely perfect.
This is the preferred DeLorean for weekend events.
INSURANCE - I currently insure both of these DeLoreans with FULL COVERAGE
liability, collision, comprehensive, with NO DEDUCTIBLES and Stated Value
on
the cars with Hagerty Classic Car Insurance (www.hagerty.com) or
1-800-922-4052 for $475 for both cars for and entire year. This is
limited
driving (2500 miles max) and no driving to work, but this is great for
many
of us. Both DeLorean are always kept covered in a locked garage.
'88 Fiero GT, # 216286, is a 5-speed stick shift with almost 100,000
miles
on it and it had 3 miles on it when I purchased it off the showroom floor
8
years ago. With a collectible DeLorean, I just had to have what I
believe is
a true American collectible today. I have enjoyed every mile of it, and
still get comments from folks about my "Ferarri". I LOVE IT! This top of
the
line beauty, still turns heads where ever I drive (it is my daily
driver), it
is easy to manuever in the Los Angeles freeway system, it has much better
visibility for around town driving, and quick manuevering. With the
sunroof
it is just like a convertible whenever I desire to put the top down. I
always keep it covered with a car cover when it is outside. It is
DEFINITELY
THE QUICKEST of the three vehicles, although I have never driven any of my
cars hard, it keeps up with the fastest traffic in the LA area which
usually
goes at 70 to 75. For cross country touring, I definitely prefer either
of
the DeLoreans. They are much more comfortable, have much more luggage
space,
and easily cruise above 80 mph. For those of you that are interested in
more
information on FIEROS, there is a very active mailing list that gets
about 10
times the traffic as this list. Check out the Fiero Home Page and Online
FAQ
at "www.fiero.org/fiero.html". There is a very active Fiero Owners
Association also, who are by the way having their annual get-together at
the
Indianapolis 500 Racetrack the weekend before the DeLorean Owners Expo
'96 in
Nashville.
Sorry for the long posting, however I have patiently held back during the
many weeks of ramblings on these topics. Hope to see many of you in
Nashville for EXPO '96. Save your $ to buy lots of DeLorean Association
products. We have some great new short and long sleeve 'T' shirts and
collar-less button down shirts. Watch the DeLorean Association home page
at
"www.delorean-owners.org" for Big Product Introduction SOON!
Ray Haug
Chapter 12 Coordinator (Southern California)
Delorean Owners Association
raymond_haug(AT)lamg.com
------------------------------
From: WAWAZAT1(AT)aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:17:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Creeping Brake Pedal
Sounds like the problem is the master cylinder. The internal O-rings or
the
piston/bore itself gets worn and the fluid internally bypasses from the
discharge (to the brakes) side back to the inlet (from the pedal) side.
The
remedy is to rebuild the master cylinder if it's simply the O-rings or the
piston/bore is not worn too badly to be honed & polished, or to replace
the
master cylinder if you cannot locate a rebuild kit or individual O-rings.
I
have had no problems with my brakes in the 10+ years that I've owned
WAWAZAT,
thus have not taken the initiative to research the availability or
interchangeability of parts with those from another vehicle. Be certain
to
bleed the entire system after doing any master cylinder work.
By the way, it's a good idea to replace completely all of the fluid in
your
brake system periodically (every couple of years or so). Fluid does break
down, accumulates moisture from the air whenever you check the master
cylinder level, and minute metallic particles accumulate in the master
cylinder & caliper pistons from normal wear. All of these contribute to
internal wear and premature failure of components. So, I guess now I've
semi-motivated myself to schedule a brake system high-colonic for
WAWAZAT!
I recently did that on my '72 Toyota FJ-40 Landcruiser; the "D" shouldn't
pose any more of a challenge. One last thing: be certain to always use a
high-quality DOT 3 fluid, rated for disc brakes. Cheap or off-brand fluid
may boil during hot weather or hard braking, resulting in sudden & total
total loss of stopping ability. The least you'll suffer is heart
palpitations & dirty underwear! I speak from experience!!!
OBTW, I will soon be dropping my America OnLine subscription; I've finally
had it with "no carrier" problems and "host failed to respond" drop-offs
forcing me to use a 2400 bps line. Should any of you wish to E-mail me,
it's
wawazat1(AT)aone.com I'll be off AOL in a couple of weeks.
------------------------------
From: mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:32:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
STOP RIGHT THERE! (no pun intended)
>pose any more of a challenge. One last thing: be certain to always use a
>high-quality DOT 3 fluid, rated for disc brakes. Cheap or off-brand fluid
>may boil during hot weather or hard braking, resulting in sudden & total
>total loss of stopping ability. The least you'll suffer is heart
>palpitations & dirty underwear! I speak from experience!!!
USE ONLY AT DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID, preferably Castrl GTLMA DOT 4. British
seals have a higher level of natural rubber than American or Japnese
made seals and will doissolve in a lower level fluid. Don't let anyone
blow smoke up your exhaust saying a lower DOT rating will do, use only a
DOT 4, preferably Castrol GTLMA.
James Espey
------------------------------
From: aerostar(AT)ccia.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 00:08:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: DMC Service Facilities
BHenderlong, bhenderlong(AT)wusf.usf.edu wrote in V2 #146 of dmcnews;
>One of my main concerns is that there don't appear to be any
>DeLorean service facilities in (or even near) Florida. With detailed
>instructions in hand and the purchase of a few tools, I could
>probably perform routine maintenance/small repairs myself, but it's
>still a concern.
>Brian Henderlong
>henderlong(AT)wusf.usf.edu
>Concert 90 Public Radio
>WUSF-FM 89.7 Tampa / St. Petersburg
>WGCU-FM 90.1 Fort Myers / Naples
One thing to remember is that there were quite a few DMC "dealerships"
purchased by existing large car dealerships. DeLorean Cadillac
(Cleveland)
is one example. I met a mechanic from DeLorean Cadillac several years
ago.
Just being curious, I asked him if he ever had the opportunity to work on
a
DMC-12 and what where his thoughts were on the car. His comments to me at
the time run along the very same lines of what we discuss here in the
digest.
DeLorean Cadillac is owned by JZD's brother Chuck, so let's assume Chuck
went to some extra effort to make sure his staff was well aquatinted with
the DMC-12. Even then, there must be a few mechanics at car dealerships
out
there that have a working knowledge of the car to this date.
The thing to try to do is:
1) To somehow find out which DMC dealers in 1982 are car dealers today
2) Contact their service department to see if a mechanic is still around
that knows the car
Brian, along these lines I remember a large Cadillac/Pontiac/etc.
dealership on US 41 in Ft. Myers that was a DMC dealer. Break out the
Yellow Pages and make a few calls. Let us know what you find out.
Eric Friedebach aerostar(AT)ccia.com
------------------------------
From: ausmith(AT)pdx.oneworld.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:03:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: DMC Service Facilities
> BHenderlong, bhenderlong(AT)wusf.usf.edu wrote in V2 #146 of dmcnews;
>
> >One of my main concerns is that there don't appear to be any
> >DeLorean service facilities in (or even near) Florida. With detailed
> >instructions in hand and the purchase of a few tools, I could
> >probably perform routine maintenance/small repairs myself, but it's
> >still a concern.
My dealer book that came with the car lists,
Al Gallman Pontiac
3621 S. Cleveland Ave.
Fort Myers, FL 33901
813 936-8111
My phone book still lists this as a viable business with the addition
of Isuzu.
Try it, there may still be a mechanic or two that work there.
Chris
------------------------------
From: Jeff Frailey, jfrailey(AT)NIIA.Net
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Craig Radio Available
Craig Radio
I as I mentioned before,I have an
original Craig radio from an '81 Vin #6866 that
hasn't been hooked up since 1988.
I tested...
the tape deck - ok,
the speaker outputs - ok,
the radio (AM + FM) - ok,
and no the display doesn't work (bad ribbon cable).
I also have the small circuit board which is
about 5" upstream from the radio.
I don't know if anyone wants this thing, but
I'm not attached to it either.
Let me know.
~Jeff Frailey
------------------------------
From: Jeff Frailey, jfrailey(AT)NIIA.Net
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:15:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Brake Pedal Travel Distance
I put a new master cylinder in a
a while back. I guess I was just happy
to be able to drive (and stop) again, so
I haven't gotten around to asking this yet.
With all the talk about brakes this seems
like a gook time.
My brake peddle travels about 2.5" before
any affect is noticed. Is this normal?
The car stops very well, but I worry that
the split second it takes to push the peddle
is going to cost me some day.
Is there a plunger arm adjustment? OR any
other way to adjust the brake pedals travel
distance?
Fluid levels good.
Lines have been bled.
Just too much movement for my liking.
Thanks as always,
~Jeff Fraily
#6866
------------------------------
From: Jeff Frailey, jfrailey(AT)NIIA.Net
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:15:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Clutch Replacement
Well, she's fading fast (the clutch).
This Chicago traffic is taking it's toll
on my Delorean. The stop-and-go is quickly
waring out my clutch and my left leg.
However, I think I'd prefer to stay with
a firm gripping clutch than not.
Question: Does a firm clutch mean that I
have to have a stiff peddle?
The previous owner (a relative) said he had
put an extra hard grabbing clutch plate in
a long time ago. He remembers that it was
a well known name brand, but can't recall what
it was. He purchased it thru either the guys
in California or Texas.
Question: Any help guessing what he replaced
it with would be appreciated.
Looks like I'm holding off on the cosmetic
improvements until I get this fixed.
Any clutch experience is welcome.
~Jeff Frailey
#6866
(jfrailey(AT)niia.net)
------------------------------
From: WAWAZAT1(AT)aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:49:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
James, you're entirely correct! I use DOT 3 fluid in my Landcruiser, and
while my train of thought was there I gave bum dope. The Delorean shop
manual states in several places to use DOT 4. I apologize to all that
read
the results of my brain fart. I hope no one rushed out and used the wrong
stuff before James posted the correction. It's good to know that folks
are
paying attention and offering prompt responses.
Thanks, James!!!
------------------------------
From: Don Gowler-CFPO01, Don_Gowler-CFPO01(AT)email.mot.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:10:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
Message authorized by:
: mikasa(AT)goodnet.com(AT)INTERNET at #EMAIL
Actually what you really want to do is flush your brake system and use
Dot 5
silicone. It is impervious to moisture and therefore you can let the car
sit
for months on end without worrying about the fluid getting contaminated
or
'braking' down.
Regards, The Silver Fox
___________________________________________________________________________
____
Subject: Proper Brake Fluid (was Re: Creeping Brake Pedal)
From: dmcnews-approval(AT)world.std.com(AT)INTERNET at #EMAIL
Date: 7/27/96 6:32 PM
STOP RIGHT THERE! (no pun intended)
>pose any more of a challenge. One last thing: be certain to always use a
>high-quality DOT 3 fluid, rated for disc brakes. Cheap or off-brand fluid
>may boil during hot weather or hard braking, resulting in sudden & total
>total loss of stopping ability. The least you'll suffer is heart
>palpitations & dirty underwear! I speak from experience!!!
USE ONLY AT DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID, preferably Castrol GTLMA DOT 4. British
seals have a higher level of natural rubber than American or Japnese
made seals and will doissolve in a lower level fluid. Don't let anyone
blow smoke up your exhaust saying a lower DOT rating will do, use only a
DOT 4, preferably Castrol GTLMA.
James Espey
------------------------------
From: Norman Vennard, norman.vennard(AT)shorts.co.uk
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:21:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Slipping clutch
The clutch in my 81 Delorean is slipping very badly does anyone
know if there is adjustment in the cable. If not does the engine
have to come out to replace clutch parts.
Regards Norman.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
| Norman Vennard | Email: norman.vennard(AT)shorts.co.uk |
| Senior Systems Analyst | Phone: 44 1232 733417 |
| Short Brothers PLC | Fax : 44 1232 733535 |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V2 #147
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