Back to DeLorean Mailing List Page. Return to Back Issues page.
Having problems with these pages? Have a good idea for the back Issues? Email me at: backissues(AT)dmcnews.com
Member of the LinkExchange
Wednesday, 22 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 116
In this issue:
Re: Too hot and out of gas
Chat, Tires & Scandinavian DeLoreans
Re: The DOA, DML and me
Re: Marv's comments
Re: The DOA, DML and me
Re: Marv's comments
Common Faults/Turbos
Re: Too hot and out of gas
The DOA, DML and James Espey
Fan Fail Mode / AC Compresor Failure?
My take on Parts/Services facilities
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Knut S Grimsrud, Knut_S_Grimsrud(AT)ccm.jf.intel.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:42:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Too hot and out of gas
>> Filled up and she ran fine except that the gauge had shot up to 180 - 200
>>degrees. She usually runs at 120. Drove for about another ten minutes
home.
>>engine didn't go ever 200 but didn't go down either. Is this overheating
due
>>to running out of gas or did the stalling occur due to overheating?
>>Could my charger have fried some circuitry? Any ideas?
> Now James adds his $.02 worth:
> Regarding Marv's point #2, cooling fans. Having recently experienced a
> cooling fan failure that showed the same symptoms as you describe, I
> think that is as good a place as any to start. Check your electrical
> relays, the cooling fan relay is unreliable and has shown a tendency to
> fail. If your car has not had a jumper installed (as a factory bulletin
> recommended), it would be the blue relay in the lower left corner of the
> relays. If you need advice on replacing the relay with a fused jumper,
> email me at mikasa(AT)goodnet.com.
Now it's my turn for another couple cents worth. ALthough it is true
that the electrical system has some reliability problems, your problem
sounds a lot like your water pump vapor locked. When the pump locks,
the fans will not come on (and they would not do any good if they
did). Check the fluid level in your overflow bottle -- if it gets too
low it will suck in a big bubble of air. Top off the level and bleed
your system using the recommended procedures.
The operation of your cooling fans can be verified quite easily from
thermal switch all the way through your electrical system. Disconnect
the two wires on your thermal switch (located on the driver's side
coolant pipe in the engine compartment. It is most easily visible from
underneath the car behind the rear tire). After you have the two wires
disconnected, "close" the switch manually by shorting the two wires
with a little stub of wire or by other means. This will make your car
think the thermal switch has tripped and will engage your fans. If
your fans do not engage you indeed have a problem with the electrical
system related to cooling fans. In any case, if you have the original
fan fail module, it should be replaced (with either the 3-wire jumper
or by a replacement module like "FanZilla") as it is a common failure
point.
The above test will not tell you if your thermal switch has failed
(which they sometimes do). To test the thermal switch, you must first
ensure that your cooling system is bled properly and that coolant is
actually circulating. Let your car warm up (don't fry it). When the
temp gauge reads sufficiently high (to the point that the thermal
switch should have closed) verify that is has actually closed by
disconnecting the two wires to it and checking it with an ohm-meter
(continuity tester).
Knut Grimsrud
DOA Chapter 41
------------------------------
From: Stian Birkeland, stbirk(AT)adh.no
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:17:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Chat, Tires & Scandinavian DeLoreans
Hi!
This mailing list is great!!! THANK YOU JAMES ESPEY!
I`m from Norway and I plan to purchase a DeLorean soon.
These are my questions:
1) This mailing list is excellent, but I`ve seen various chat forums here
on the Net. It would be awesome if someone could make a DeLorean Chat
forum LIVE! Anyone?
2) James Espey wrote that he uses Yokohama-tires. What is their name,
number etc.?
3) I`m interested to get in contact with Norwegian and Scandinavian
DeLorean owners. E-mail me! Also, I noticed on the old DMC-homepage that
a Swede by the name of Patrick Hanson was selling his DeLorean. I have
tried to e-mail him, but his e-mail address is no longer valid.
Are there any Swedes on this mailing list who knows him??? Let me know.
Yours sincerely,
Stian Birkeland
E-MAIL: stbirk(AT)krs.hia.no
------------------------------
From: Marvin S.Sterling, marv930(AT)ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:54:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The DOA, DML and me
At 11:00 PM 5/19/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I welcome anyone who has any questions reagrding anything I've written or
>anything else for that matter to contact me at anytime.
>
>James Espey (mikasa(AT)goodnet.com)
>Fanatical DeLorean Owner, #10570
>Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
>Electronic Communications Director, DeLorean Owner's Association
>Chapter 43 Coordinator (Arizona), DeLorean Owner's Association
>
__________________________________
Appreciate your efforts but I do question the lack of a cross reference
list
when we all know that the oil filter is Pugeot and the gas filter is Volvo
etc. etc. I found out the hard way from a local foreign auto supply shop.
In any event keep sending and I'll keep reading.
Marv Sterling, vin 16000 DOA member
------------------------------
From: James Espey, mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:55:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Marv's comments
>__________________________________
>Appreciate your efforts but I do question the lack of a cross reference list
>when we all know that the oil filter is Pugeot and the gas filter is Volvo
>etc. etc. I found out the hard way from a local foreign auto supply shop.
>In any event keep sending and I'll keep reading.
>Marv Sterling, vin 16000 DOA member
Marv -
You're being a little vague when oyu say you question the lack of a
cross-reference list. First. do you question the lack of one from the the
DML or the DOA?
You say the oil filter in Pugeot (spelling incorrect, should be Peugeot)
and the gas filter is Volvo, but you have never in this. or the other
times you've posted this given any more complete information, such as
PART NUMBERS. I dare say that if anyone were to walk into a parts store
and ask for a Peugeot oil filter or Volvo gas filter they would
undoubtedly be asked FOR WHICH PEUGEOT OR WHICH VOLVO? When you say it's
really for a DeLorean, most places will shrug and say that without a
SPECIFIC cross reference, you're S.O.L.
If you don't know, Marv, just say so - if you do, tell us.
James
------------------------------
From: jory bell, jory(AT)MIT.EDU
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:56:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The DOA, DML and me
Was this letter motivated by something? Did someone say something I missed
about DOA, James Espey, or the guy who owns D1? I certainly appreciate
James' work with the mailing list and understand all the basically
thankless work it takes. Thanks James! However, as a DOA member and
vehicle
enthusiast, I did have a few comments on James' message.
>I run the DeLorean Mailing List as a fanatical DeLorean owner, not a
>member of the board of directors. I began the DeLorean Mailing List as a
>way of exchanging information about the car, company and man on a
[schnip]
>In my position as the Electronic Communications Director, I have some
>contact with Ed Bernstein, the current president of the DeLorean Owner's
>Association. Despite many peoples thoughts to the contrary, Ed Bernstein
>is one of the greatest assets of the Association, and at this time, there
>is no better leader or spokesperson for the Association than Ed
>Bernstein. Any talk of there being a conflict of interest with him as the
>owner of DeLorean One and the president of the DeLorean Owner's
>Association is inaccurate and insulting.
>
>Insulting to whom, you may ask? Insulting to me, for one, and several
>other members of the DeLorean Owner's Association board. As board members
>of a corporation, we are charged with the responsibility of running the
>largest and certainly most successful DeLorean owners group in the world
>- larger and more successful than many other non-DeLorean car clubs out
>there, too. We are legally required to see that the DeLorean Owner's
>Association in run in a legal and ethical manner. To accuse Ed Bernstein
>of ANY impropriety is to accuse the board members of complicity by
>allowing it to happen.
I know nothing about this particular case, but I do want to point out that
there's a big difference between something being illegal and involving a
conflict of interest. Just look to the twisted interlocking directorshipos
of most major corporations Perfectly legal? Yes. Conflict of interest?
Definitely.
One problem I can see arising about *perceptions* of DeLorean One's
President being the DOA President is that DeLorean One is one of the most
unfriendly businesses I've ever had the displeasure to deal with. I will
likely have to buy something from them in the future (as I did when I
first
got my car), but I have been amazed at the throroughly unprofessional
nature of their customer service. It seems reasonable that someone who
operates such a hostile enterprise might not be seen as the best person to
head up an enthusiast club which would hopefully be based on a shared
interest and friendly enthusiasm for the vehicle.
>A few former and present members of the Association have complained about
>certain policies of the DeLorean Owner's Association, including the fact
>that we will not distribute parts cross-reference lists, we will not
>distribute our membership list and our policies requiring quarterly
>reports and other information from the local chapters.
>
>To set the record straight, we will not distribute parts cross-reference
>lists because of the tremendous liability that is magnified even more so
>by the ever-litigious society we live in today. Say we recommend an oil
>filter made by "Billy Bob's Oil Filter Company of Osh Kosh". You buy one
>and install it on your car and a week or month or year later your motor
>throws a rod - the DeLorean Owner's Association could be held liable. And
>no, more often than not, disclaimers will not hold up in court.
Though there might be good (legal) reasons not to distribute cross
reference lists, the fact that the President of DOA has a clear financial
interest in suppressing that information seems a reasonable topic of
discussion and conjecture. There is certianly the APPEARENCE of conflict.
Especially since D1 seems to fanatically insist on originality at all
expense (OK, basically at the customer's expene) whether or not the
customer is interested in maintaining a concourse vehicle.
In truth though, I don't really buy the legal argument in any case for a
couple reasons.
1. I have seen all sorts of cross reference lists for land rover parts
published by various organization and individuals.
2. Many of the useful closs reference information is not like your example
(billy-bob's offbrand part), but is simply a matter of cross refencing OEM
parts . When I get the Bosch part which is the same part originally used
by
D1, I don't see the legal argument holding. Often times the OWM part is
the
same OWN parts sold by DeLorean parts houses (the brake master cylinder
comes to mind).
Basically, if the DOA can't find a way to distribute cross reference parts
info to its members on a 15 year old, limited production car by a defunct
company, then maybe the DOA in its current form is not the best
organization to help owners share their interest and maintain their
DeLoreans.
>I'm often asked via email and in other ways of the single best thing
>people can buy for their DeLoreans. I'm dead serious when I say that the
>best $60 you'll EVER spend will be on membership in the DeLorean Owner's
>Association. If after becoming a member in the DeLorean Owner's
>Association, you take advantage of the fantastic collection of back
>issues of DeLorean World magazine, the entertaining and informative owner
>expos, and the local chapter activities (No chapter in your area? Why not
>start one?) you'll get your $60 back several times over.
The best thing you'll ever buy for your DeLorean?
1. The parts and service manuals are a good start.
2. A good cross reference parts list (like that of Tom Long).
3. An internet/email acount to get al the online DeLorean info from fellow
owners
I guess prior to the advent of the net, the back issues of the DeLorean
World magazine might have been invaluable for the technical discussion
therein, but this discussion can be supplanted by knowledgeable people
exchanging info on the net through web pages or this very mailing list.
DeLorean World magazine stll has some value, but the first 2 issues I
received were basically devoid of contect, unless you count the article on
choosing a proper windshield wiper (?!) I don't know if I'll renew my
membership next year, but it certainly doesn't feel like the best $60 I
ever spent on my D.
------------------------------
From: Marvin Sterling, marv930(AT)ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:01:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Marv's comments
You wrote:
>
>>__________________________________
>>Appreciate your efforts but I do question the lack of a cross
reference list
>>when we all know that the oil filter is Pugeot and the gas filter is
Volvo
>>etc. etc. I found out the hard way from a local foreign auto supply
shop.
>>In any event keep sending and I'll keep reading.
>>Marv Sterling, vin 16000 DOA member
>
>Marv -
>
>You're being a little vague when oyu say you question the lack of a
>cross-reference list. First. do you question the lack of one from the
the
>DML or the DOA?
>
>You say the oil filter in Pugeot (spelling incorrect, should be
Peugeot)
>and the gas filter is Volvo, but you have never in this. or the other
>times you've posted this given any more complete information, such as
>PART NUMBERS. I dare say that if anyone were to walk into a parts
store
>and ask for a Peugeot oil filter or Volvo gas filter they would
>undoubtedly be asked FOR WHICH PEUGEOT OR WHICH VOLVO? When you say
it's
>really for a DeLorean, most places will shrug and say that without a
>SPECIFIC cross reference, you're S.O.L.
>
>If you don't know, Marv, just say so - if you do, tell us.
>
>James
>
_______________________divider line
James ! touchy, touchy ... now we're checking spelling ? All that I had
to do was specify the PRV engine and year of manufacture to obtain the
correct air filter, oil filter and gas filter, perhaps our
sophisticated New York foreign auto parts distributors are a little
better informed than most. I'll be more than happy to post any
interchangeable parts numbers, give me a few days. Bye the way, for any
owners, in the New York metro area, looking for body reapirs, fascia
repainting etc. I found a shop, Chromy Automotive, in Long Island City,
that did a job on mine that has left me speechless ... it seems that
their experience on Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Lamborghinis and Jag's
qualified them to handle the "D"
On a personal level I really do appreciate what you are doing and the
effort that you are expending on it, my reference was strictly to the
DML and not the DOA, I know that the DOA cannot endorse things for the
vehicle
Regards,
Marv Sterling
------------------------------
From: Michael Fischer, Michael.Fischer(AT)pipe.nova.ca
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Common Faults/Turbos
As a lurker on the list, I'd like to thank you all for the invaluable
information gained from the list. I'm a member of DOA but as yet do not
own a 'D' yet. (Hopefully this will be remedied soon as I'm currently
dealing on a couple different ones.)
I've seen several posts regarding common faults etc. to look for when
purchasing a 'D', has this hit list ever been compiled into a single
list?
Another item, what is involved in converting to twin turbo, do they
simply slap on the turbo's, exhaust and intakes? Or do they drop the
compression with new pistons, and/or alter the drive train?
------------------------------
From: Marvin Sterling, marv930(AT)ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Too hot and out of gas
You wrote:
>
>>> Filled up and she ran fine except that the gauge had shot up to 180
- - 200
(big snip)
>system related to cooling fans. In any case, if you have the original
>fan fail module, it should be replaced (with either the 3-wire jumper
>or by a replacement module like "FanZilla") as it is a common failure
>point.
>
('nother snip)
> Knut Grimsrud
> DOA Chapter 41
>
Another 1/2 cent comment. I believe that P.J. Grady advertises improved
replacement modules in DeLorean World ( phone # 516-589-6224 )
Marv Sterling
------------------------------
From: deneb(AT)denebcorp.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:11:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The DOA, DML and James Espey
Contained in DMCNEWS digest v2 #115 was a lengthy posting by James Espey
regarding his involvement with the DeLorean Owners Association and
DeLorean Mail List. In this posting he made several statements with
which I do not agree. Without getting into a flame war on the internet,
perhaps the best thing to say is that everyone has had their own
individual experiences with the Association and Ed B.
My reason for posting this message is to suggest that as subscribers to
this list that it does not become a polical battleground as Mr. Espey's
posting may cause.
I admire Mr. Espey's committment as a Fanatical DeLorean Owner. As
someone who has taken the car apart piece by piece designed a new frame
and rebuilt it, I consider my committment at least as great. I do not
wish to see DeLorean Owners split over polical agedas by a select few
members of the association.
Sincerely,
Bryan Pearce
------------------------------
From: jory bell, jory(AT)MIT.EDU
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:51:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Fan Fail Mode / AC Compresor Failure?
>>system related to cooling fans. In any case, if you have the original
>>fan fail module, it should be replaced (with either the 3-wire jumper
>>or by a replacement module like "FanZilla") as it is a common failure
>>point.
>>
> ('nother snip)
>
>> Knut Grimsrud
>> DOA Chapter 41
>>
>Another 1/2 cent comment. I believe that P.J. Grady advertises improved
>replacement modules in DeLorean World ( phone # 516-589-6224 )
What is the fan fail mode/module? I appear to have tghe 3-wire jmper
installed, but the 2 fuse holders that are part of the jumper are somewhat
melted. Can someone describe what this is/does? My cooling system works
fine, for what it's worth.
Also, my air conditioning recently ceased operating. The compressor is
failing to engage, and it loks like the compressor is not getting 12V.
Looking at the manuals, it is ot clear which relay(s) are associated with
the compresor, or how I should troubleshoot (electrics not being my forte
;) The AC Compressor fuse is fine.
Thanks in advance for any help.
jory bell
jory(AT)mit.edu
------------------------------
From: James Espey, mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:24:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My take on Parts/Services facilities
Since there have been several people variously condemning and praising
the different parts/service facilities, I felt obligated to put in my
$.02 worth. Jory, Bryan and Marv may say that, at least in this case, my
estimate of it's worth is right on target. I say let every man/woman
judge for him/herself.
Here where I live in Arizona, there are NO dedicated DeLorean
parts/service facilities. I do as much work on my DeLorean as I can by
myself. I buy my parts locally (when possible) and from the DeLorean
parts facility that offers me the greatest value for my dollar. In more
cases than not, this has been DeLorean One. When a part I ordered from
DeLorean One failed after 8 months of use, DeLorean One provided me a new
one at no charge the NEXT DAY and told me how to get my car running in
the interim. Additionally, while DeLorean One does charge more for some
parts, MANY of their parts are the same price as other companies. In
other cases, their prices are higher, but generally, the part is of
better quality.
In contrast, I have been treated rudely by Dee at DeLorean Motor Center
when I asked to have a part sent via FEDEX at my expense (evidently they
use UPS and she was not willing to call for a FEDEX pickup or drop it off
at a FEDEX drop box on her way home). At the owners expo in Las Vegas
last year, Don was more interested in getting me involved in his
multi-level marketing opportunity than talking to me about the DeLorean
and parts that I was interested in.
I like Rob Grady of PJ Grady, but I can always count on waiting at least
a week or more before I receive anything I order from him. In addition, I
recently ordered a part from Debbie at PJ Grady (Rob's wife) and was sent
a "PJ Grady reproduction" part without my knowledge or consent. The part
was NOT identical to the factory original (and required me to purchase
some other parts locally). In as much as I try to keep my car as original
as possible, this was very disturbing to me.
The DeLorean Parts Division of Swedish (R.I.P.) offered good advice and
good prices. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I wish
they were still around, or that Tim would get a job at another DeLorean
shop.
DeLorean One is *possibly* the most successful parts/service organization
in the world. People from around the world not only take their cars to
DeLorean One, but many also pay DeLorean One to come and get their cars
so that they will work on them. A good deal of these owners are actually
CLOSER to other DeLorean service facilities, but are willing to pay more
and travel further to have DeLorean One fix their cars. There must be a
reason.
In my own investigations, I have asked these owners why they would do
such a seemingly senseless thing. Time and time again, the answer has
been that DeLorean One does the job right the FIRST time, and DeLorean
One stands behind their work like no other shop does.
An excellent case in point is Anthony Ierardi from New York State and his
1981 DeLorean. After an exhausting search, he bought this car a year or
so ago from the original dealer with 151 miles on it. It had been in the
showroom since new. Anthony bought the car and trailered it home. He then
called DeLorean One to come ACROSS THE COUNTRY to pick up the car and go
through it from tip to tail. Anthony lives not far from PJ Grady, but yet
he chose to pay more to have the car picked up and delivered to him from
a company literally on the other side of the country. Anthony is not
alone, either. In the last month, DeLorean One has picked up cars from
Washington DC, Virginia, Ohio, Idaho, and Texas. Despite that, most of
DeLorean One's business comes from Southern California, the site of
DeLorean Motor Center and formerly Swedish Autoservice.
Some people have posted to the list accusing Ed Bernstein of being short
with them on the phone. Some of these people have probably not had any
other contact with Ed Bernstein or DeLorean One except over the phone to
ask for FREE information. Imagine, if you will, YOU are the owner of the
largest and most successful widget company in the world. You live, eat
and breath widgets and have for over 15 years. Widgets are the livelihood
of you, your family and your employees. There are several other widget
companies throughout the country, too. Some of these companies sell some
items for less, but some of these companies also have been known to do
less than excellent service and sell some sub-standard widgets, too.
As the owner of the greatest widget company in the world, you receive
calls and faxes from the four corners of the earth, many with questions
from people that are not your regular clients. Do you continue to answer
their questions for free, explaining to them what is wrong with their
widgets, and what needs to be done to fix them, while you know they are
then buying their replacement parts from your competitors? Who suffers in
this scenario? Why it's you, and your company. Not only in lost time
answering questions for people for free who then spend their
parts/service dollar with your competitiors, but YOUR REAL CLIENTS suffer
also, in that you must devote less time to them to answer the questions
of the freeloaders.
To those that would say and write insulting and inaccurate comments about
ANY DeLorean parts/service facility (or anyone in general), let me first
say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and if that's too
religious for you, let me say that you should know ALL the facts before
you start spouting off, repeating what may or may not be the truth.
James "Mikasa" Espey
"There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands..."
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V2 #116
***************************** Go to previous digest | Go to next digest.
Back to DeLorean Mailing List Page.
Return to Back Issues page.
Having problems with these pages? Have a good idea for the back Issues? Email me at: backissues(AT)dmcnews.com
Member of the LinkExchange