DeLorean Mailing List - 11/6/96
dmcnews-digest Wednesday, 6 November 1996 Volume 02 : Number 193
In this issue:
For: Dan Surin/Joel Albert
Turbo scoops
Re: slipping clutch
#502 + nice start to my day...
Dash/Console Clock
Re: #502 + nice start to my day...
Re: DMC in Houston (antenna in fender)
Re: slipping clutch
Clutch push to start?
Re:Antennas in fender
Re: #502 + nice start to my day...
Dallas Ds
Re: #502 + nice start to my day...
Re: Clutch push to start?
Another DMC on the road
AC panel lighting modification.
'77 dmc in s.calif. museum
radiator.
need help buying.
Re: need help buying.
Re: radiator.
Re: need help buying
I need someone to take over the list
Re: slipping clutch / Starting woes
Rubber/metal strips at top of doors
Window switch covers!!!
1983 DeLorean For Sale
And the winner is . . .
Sewing machine lifters?
Re: need help buying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 22:33:56 -0800
Subject: For: Dan Surin/Joel Albert
Please email me at your earliest convenience, I have lost your email addresses.
Thanks!
James Espey
------------------------------
From: "bhenderlong" Date: 31 Oct 1996 16:15:46
+700
Subject: Turbo scoops
Michael Fischer wrote:
>...and possibly the best looking thing I've ever seen on a D, was the twin scoops
replacing the puny air intakes in the back corners of the rear windows, they really
gave the D an aggressive bad-boy look.
I read a few weeks ago that KAPAC still has all the blueprints for the various
components of the DeLorean; if they have the blueprints for those scoops, I'll bet
they could make some, or have another company make them for you. Then you
could have your own "turbo-look" DMC-12!
Brian Henderlong
bhenderlong@wusf.usf.edu
------------------------------
From: sundiver@hellfire.dusers.drexel.edu (J Ferrara) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996
15:13:03 -0500
Subject: Re: slipping clutch
>>My clutch started slipping recently. Give the car a lot of gas, and the engine
speeds up but the car doesn't. The thing that I find strange is that the clutch
(and pressure plate) is only 2 years (30K miles) old.
>Can you please describe any sounds you hear when this happens? When my the clutch
in my Blazer was going bad the first signs were when I had trouble getting it
rolling after a stop light.
There are no unusual sounds. It is a little harder to get the car rolling from a
stop than normal, but not much. It takes about a second or two for the engine and
transmission speeds to match after I've completely released the clutch. The problem
is much more noticeable in higher gears, where if you give the car a lot of gas,
the engine will 'break loose' and RPMs increase without a matching increase in the
speed of the car. Power is still being transmitted to the wheels, and the car
accelerates, but not nearly as quickly as it should. The feel (and sound) is exactly
the same as if you had pushed the clutch pedal in partway.
- - J
------------------------------
From: Devil-Wolf Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:15:22 -0800
Subject: #502 + nice start to my day...
Here's speaking for my #5918, it has the rear power antenna, and indented hood
with no gas flap. I've long admired those air scoops over the intakes and at one
point had planned on buying some, unfortunately, I can't remember who was offering
them for sale...hmmmmmm, I wonder if I could construct a pair myself. At anyrate,
I was driving down the road here the other day, early in the morning when suddenly
I noticed a flash of lights and in the distance...Good god, there it was, another
Delorean. The driver rolled his window down and waved as he went by and, I waved
back (unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to tracking down the wiring fault in
that window.)
Certainly a good start to my day to see another DeLorean. I rarely get to see one
from the outside and on the road. I didn't have a good look, but I don't beleive I
recognized the driver, he was headed towards bainbridge island though. Upon getting
home I was informed that there was what looked like a DeLorean, not too far from here
that I hadn't known about, it was under a car cover, but certainly my female companion
knows by now the shape of a DeLorean, so naturally I went to have a look for myself...
it's hard to see driving by, but I'm certain it's a DeLorean, The shape is distinctive
and from what I understand it's black. I don't know if it's always been there and I just
hadn't noticed or what. When I manage to get the DeLorean started again, I might just
hop on over there to say Hello. Which brings me to a point. It's gotten rather cool here,
and i've been having battery problems lately, but yesterday morning when I went to start the
DeLorean, I found that it would crank and crank without starting, as if it weren't
getting gas.
I was especially surprised to see that the battery didn't seem to be draining, it
would crank just as hard the second attemp as it would the first, whereas usually
cranking the engine drains the battery rather quickly and if I don't get it started
within the first or second attemp, there can't be any further until it's provided with
some electrical assistance.
I didn't spend too much time, but came back later that afternoon, the same thing. Although
it sounds like it's not getting gas, I can certainly smell it after a couple attempts
at cranking the engine. Naturally I'm a little baffled, and was wondering if
anybody else had had this problem...
------------------------------
From: LordWeb@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 17:56:09 -0500
Subject: Dash/Console Clock
I am looking for the impossible. I have an early '81 car (#1049) with the clock
on the console (not in the radio like the later cars). My clock works perfectly
fine except that the internal peg for setting the minutes is broken. I am
wondering if there is anybody out there who has a broken clock that I could buy.
I thought I would go the route of asking the mail list before I look into
fabricating one on my own.
Thanks in advance.
Web Bixby
------------------------------
From: ausmith@pdx.oneworld.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 17:00:08 +0000
Subject: Re: #502 + nice start to my day...
>Which brings me to a point. It's gotten rather cool here, and i've been having
battery problems lately, but yesterday morning when I went to start the
>DeLorean, I found that it would crank and crank without starting, as if it
>weren't getting gas.
Anthony,
I had a similar problem caused by a loose computer plug. Check the plugs in the
compartment behind the drivers seat. All of them!
Chris
------------------------------
From: Scott Sykes
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:02:57 -0500
Subject: Re: DMC in Houston (antenna in fender)
>the most puzzling of all and '81 with the gas door in the hood, but it also had
a mast antenna on the right front fender. (I thought that surely and obviously
early '81 would have had the windsheild antenna)
Just to add to the mystery, my DeLorean #577 has the hood gas flap and antenna on
the right front fender.
The "born on date" is March 1981. I was told when I bought it that it was the
17th car off the assembly line.
Scott Sykes
ssykes@rsabbs.com
------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:59:18
-0800
Subject: Re: slipping clutch
At 02:48 PM 10/30/96 -0500, you wrote:
>My clutch started slipping recently. Give the car a lot, of gas, and the engine
speeds up but the car doesn't. The thing that I find strange is that the clutch
(and pressure plate) is only 2 years (30K miles) old. I don't
>drive the car hard, and would expect the clutch to last longer than that. Is
there something that could be wrong besides a worn out clutch that could be
>causing this? Something in the hyraulics perhapse. I know it's supposed to be
>self adjusting, but the service manual is a little vague on how it's supposed
>to work.
>I'd like to investigate other possiblities before attempting to remove the
transmission.
>Thanks
>- J
- ------------------------------------------------------
My first clutch went at about 20K miles and was not ridden, it just went. Check to
see if the factory "fix" was made on the clutch pedal to compensate
for the plastic hydraulic clutch line ... if it is there it may be adjusted
incorrectly resulting in an incomplete release. Your comment about self adjusting
eludes me ... is the clutch self adjusting ? I know that the brakes are supposed
to be. When you replace thhe clutch use the centerforce assembly and change the
slave cylinder at the same time. Regards,
Marv
Marv Sterling
------------------------------
From: Blarness@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:33:45 -0500
Subject: Clutch push to start?
Call me silly but...
Shouldn't my DeLorean NOT start when I don't have the clutch pushed in? Mine will
start in or out of gear whether the clutch is in or not.
I just crushed the leg of the bench in the front of my garage. No damage to the
car what-so-ever !!!!!!!!! Lucky me.
- -C2
#3876
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 06:58:26 -0800
Subject: Re:Antennas in fender
>>the most puzzling of all and '81 with the gas door in the hood, but it also had
a mast antenna on the right front fender. (I thought that surely and obviously
early '81 would have had the windsheild antenna)
>Just to add to the mystery, my DeLorean #577 has the hood gas flap and antenna
on the right front fender.
Okay, now my $.02 worth.
According to what I have read in one of the "post-DMC" books (Hard Driving, I
believe) and the factory service bulletins, early owners who were dissatisfied
with the reception of the windshield antennas could have them replaced with a
"quick fix" mast antenna. Somewhere along the line I also read/heard that many
owners then believed that a fixed mast antenna was not in character with a $25K
car and DMC went back and retrofitted the mast with the power antenna. Can anyone
confirm this?
James
------------------------------
From: Devil-Wolf Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:54:54 -0800
Subject: Re: #502 + nice start to my day...
Well sheesh!...Thank you for your help, I'll keep it in mind if it ever happens
again, funny thing though...my roommate came home today and on a hunch,
decided to try starting the D, and vroom, started right up...Nothing's been
moved or adjusted, nothing's been done, I guess it just wanted a couple days
off?
oh well, As I say, thanks for your help though...
------------------------------
From: GhesquiereTA Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:32:53
-0800
Subject: Dallas Ds
I live on the west side of Fort Worth and have an 82 DMC. I don't drive much and
I try to do as much of the maintenance as possible. The guys at Automotive
Performance Unlimited, 7431 West Vickery, (817)763-8115, have done some work on
my car and I recommend them highly. They do a lot of restoration work, Vettes
and such, and are very airplane oriented. Their work is top of the line and their
rates are very fair. The other option is to ask around your local Volvo/import
shop to find a quality technician.
I know of a couple DMCs in the Fort Worth area. Any others out there in the DFW
area interested in getting together?
Tom
(Silver Bullit)
------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 03:26:21
-0800
Subject: Re: #502 + nice start to my day...
ausmith@pdx.oneworld.com wrote:
>>Which brings me to a point. It's gotten rather cool here, and i've
been
>>having battery problems lately, but yesterday morning when I went to start the
>>DeLorean, I found that it would crank and crank without starting, as if it
>>weren't getting gas.
>Anthony,
>I had a similar problem caused by a loose computer plug. Check the plugs in the
compartment behind the drivers seat. All of them!
>Chris
- -----------------------------
My 2 cents worth is to check the cold start switch and connections thereto.
Regards,
Marv
------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 03:30:47
-0800
Subject: Re: Clutch push to start?
Blarness@aol.com wrote:
>Call me silly but...
>Shouldn't my DeLorean NOT start when I don't have the clutch pushed in? Mine will
start in or out of gear whether the clutch is in or not.
>I just crushed the leg of the bench in the front of my garage. No damage to the
car what-so-ever !!!!!!!!! Lucky me.
>-C2
>#3876
- ------------------------------------------------
No! If you start it in gear you're going someplace that you probably don't want
to. The manual does say that before starting you should depress the clutch pedal
( I guess just in case ) Best regards,
Marv
------------------------------
From: Mpeak@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:26:12 -0500
Subject: Another DMC on the road
Well, I saw my first Delorean on the road today since I bought my car, and I
have to say I am very disappointed.
I entered the freeway, glanced in my rear view mirror, and there it was. My
heart began pumping like it did when I would see one on the street before I
bought my own. I slowed down to let him catch up to me so I could wave to
the guy, flash my VIN number or something, and exchange smiles. To my surprise,
the guy drove right by me with a slight smirk on his face without
even glancing. I then pulled directly behind him then to the other side of
the car (the driver's side). I stayed even with him for about 1 mile, constantly
waving and honking while my fellow DMC owner occasionally glanced
at me through the corner of his eye (but for the most part staired straight
ahead) smirking every once in a while.
I realize that Delorean owners receive many stares, glances, and other reactions
while driving on the road and it would be rediculous (and probably
arrogant) to wave to and acknowledge everybody. But to deliberately ignore a
fellow owner of a very rare, limited production car while the other owner is
making serious attempts to get your attention is just plain rude and wrong.
We are very priviledged individuals of only about 6000 in the world and the
chances of two of us randomly stumbling upon each other on the road arelow.
If there is an owner lurking out there with a license plate of "AN81DMC" who
was traveling north on highway 280 in San Jose, CA on friday, drop me a line.
I'm curious to know what game you were trying to play.
- -Matt
------------------------------
From: Delornut@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:04:50 -0500
Subject: AC panel lighting modification.
The fact the AC panel lites burn all the time is only half the problem. They
also burn with more intensity than the rest of the dash. Besides being too bright
they produce a lot of heat behind the panel. If you put a 10 ohm resistor in the
jumper wire, suggested in previous issues of this news letter, you'll find the
intensity more closely matches the rest of the dash
and the temp level drops dramatically. Radio Shack is a good source for the
resistor and be sure to wrap it well with electrical tape.
Bruce Benson
------------------------------
From: DMC81sle@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:19:08 -0500
Subject: '77 dmc in s.calif. museum
on 10-30-96 Mike Substelny requested any info on a D in a So. Cal museum. In
about '89 I visited the automotive museum in San Diego, and photographed the
De Lorean that was on display. I don't recall any signage that mentioned "1977"
or prototype. I located that photo and from the angle taken all I can
say is that it appears normal, has the light gray wheels, no visable radio
antenna, can't see if there is a gas flap.
------------------------------
From: Jason Winter
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:48:02 -0600
Subject: radiator.
I an in need of a new radiator. While changing a hose, I broke the end off the
radiator-old plastic. Are there any aftermarket radiators that will work or will
I have to call DeLorean One or Kapac?
Jason Winter
winter@onramp.net
------------------------------
From: mousse@pixi.com (Mousse Lee)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 05:09:13 -1000 (HST) Subject: need help buying.
Hello, I'm fairly new to this list and subscribed mainly as a way to find out
more information on the DeLorean. I do not currently own a DeLorean but I do have
plans to change that in the near future.
Someone I know has an 81 with a blown out engine. As far as I know
so far the engine is the only real problem with the car, it doesn't run. Apparantly
they overheated the engine at some point and it's been sitting in storage ever since.
I have three questions:
First, how much should I offer for a car in such condition. Second, what's the
best/easiest way to get it back in running condition and how much would it cost
realisticly?
Third, if I were to replace the engine what kind of alternatives do
I have? Beyond the normal volvo v6?
I live in Hawaii so that limits me somewhat in travel.
------------------------------
From: Kevin MacDougall Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:07:33 -0200
Subject: Re: need help buying.
Where do you live in Hawaii
what island etc?
At 05:09 AM 11/3/96 -1000, you wrote:
>Hello, I'm fairly new to this list and subscribed mainly as a way to find out more
information on the DeLorean. I do not currently own a DeLorean but I do have plans
to change that in the near future.
SSomeone I know has an 81 with a blown out engine. As far as I know
>so far the engine is the only real problem with the car, it doesn't run. Apparantly
they overheated the engine at some point and it's been sitting in storage ever since.
>I have three questions:
>First, how much should I offer for a car in such condition. Second, what's the
best/easiest way to get it back in running condition and how much would it cost
realisticly?
TThird, if I were to replace the engine what kind of alternatives do
>I have? Beyond the normal volvo v6?
>I live in Hawaii so that limits me somewhat in travel.
***************************************** Kevin MacDougall
Kevinmac@iconn.net
http://www.iconn.net/kevinmac
*****************************************
"If I had a dime for every original idea Bill Gates had... why I'd have nothing!" - Christopher Meinck
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:26:05 -0700
Subject: Re: radiator.
>I an in need of a new radiator. While changing a hose, I broke the end off the
radiator-old plastic. Are there any aftermarket radiators that will work or will
I have to call DeLorean One or Kapac?
>Jason Winter
>winter@onramp.net
Jason
Cooling is criticl to these cars. Unless you are planning on entering and winning
coucours, I'd replace the original radiator with a brass radiator with addtitional
cooling capacity. *AND* while you're at it, I'd replace *all* hoses unless that
was the project you were on. P.J. Grady sells an all brass radiator for under $300
that is a perfit fit replacment. Or, replace the radiator and all hoses and clamps
for about $475. There are others - I got my 3 core all metal radiator through
DeLorean Motor Center and I'm sure you'll hear from others on this newsgroup with
addtional outlets.
Thought for the day : You can never be too cool!
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 10:03:40 -0500
Subject: Re: need help buying
Mousse Lee said:
>First, how much should I offer for a car in such condition.
Compared to the stainless body, the DeLorean engine is not very unusual. I can't
tell you what this particular car is worth, but the body, frame, electronics, and
interior are a significant part of a DeLorean's value.
>Second, what's the best/easiest way to get it back in running condition and how
much would it cost realistically?
Note that just because the engine overheated does not necessarily mean it is
"blown." It may be repairable, or it may be destroyed. The cheapest way to get
it running is to fix the engine, but you need more specific information to make
that judgement. Depending on the damage a machine shop may be able to fix it.
The "easiest" way to fix it is certainly a new engine. See the back issues about
the "heart transplant" story for some details about what to expect. I would not
recommend any alternative engines.
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 10:38:54 -0800
Subject: I need someone to take over the list
I think the subject pretty much says it all. I just got a promotion at work and I
need to shed some responsibilities. For details on what it takes to run and
maintain the list, email me and we'll discuss it. Thanks.
James "Mikasa" Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 10:16:21 -0500
Subject: Re: slipping clutch / Starting woes
J. Ferrara said:
>Power is still being transmitted to the wheels, and the car accelerates, but not
nearly as quickly as it should.
Well, this sounds like something in the clutch alright, but I have never seen
anything like it myself. If Marv's advice doesn't do it for you then someone else
will need to comment here. Could there be a different problem in the clutch
hydraulic circuit causing it to slip in these conditions?
C2 said:
>Shouldn't my DeLorean NOT start when I don't have the clutch pushed in? Mine will
start in or out of gear whether the clutch is in or not.
A five-speed DeLorean *WILL* start in any gear, with or without the clutch.
Which brings me to a complaint about the DeLorean. Regular DML readers may remember
that one day last spring my car would not start unless I jiggled the Start Inhibit
relay. Well, last week it happened again: click-click but no start. I swapped the
Start Inhibit relay with the headlight relay and it started, but Friday it once
again refused to start!
Now I realize that I can buy new relays, clean out the relay recepticle, etc. to
cure the problem. My conplaint is this : WHY DOES MY CAR HAVE A RELAY TO INHIBIT
STARTING? WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO?
Acording to the wiring diagram, this relay prevents automatic DeLoreans from
starting while in gear. As near as I can tell, in five-speed DeLorean this thing
can only cause problems and does no good whatsoever. Why do we have it?
If anyone knows, please respond here.
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 11:18:28 -0700
Subject: Rubber/metal strips at top of doors
One of my local members had this question, and I hoped someone on the list might
be able to offer some input...
>I need to replace the rubber strip
>on the top of the door-that's attached with rivets to the inside of the door ? I
have the rubber strips, but have no idea how to replace them. I can't drive the
car in the rain. Would appreciate knowing if there is someone out there who has
had to replace them and how or where did they get the job done.
Fortunately we don't get much rain in AZ, but I have heard that if done improperly,
replacing these strips can cause cosmetic damage the doors. Anyone?
James
"Give me the strength to change the things I can, the grace to accept the things
I cannot, and a great big bag of money."
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 11:18:09 -0700
Subject: Window switch covers!!!
At the expo in Nashville, Rob from PJ Grady displayed a set of window switch
covers that would allow you to have a new looking switch without buying a new
switch. Most of us know that in the course of normal use, the up/down arrows on
the covers can rub off. While this in now way affects the use of the switch, it
can degrade the appearance of the rest of the row of switches, which ususally
look pretty good as they don't get used as much (defrost and passenger window).
These switch covers are now available. I ordered mine this morning. They cost
$25.00 per pair plus shipping and require you to send in your switch covers. The
switch is still operable without the cover, or you can send an additional $25.00
as a core deposit and then send him your old ones after you get the new ones from
him.
PJ Grady
118 Montauk HIghway
West Sayville, NY 11796
(516) 589-6224
I have no connection to PJ Grady - I just wanted to let people know that these
were available.
James
"Give me the strength to change the things I can, the grace to accept the things
I cannot, and a great big bag of money."
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 14:58:14 -0800
Subject: 1983 DeLorean For Sale
Perhaps the most desireable of years, most accounts indicate that approximately
900 DeLoreans were designated as 1983 models. I have become aware of this nice
grey, five-speed with just 18K miles on it. A one owner car, with all the
paperwork, as well as 15 years worth of memorabilia and other related DeLorean
manuals are included in the $16,000 asking price. The car has been garaged
throughout it's whole life, and never driven in the rain or snow. The owner,
now retired, wishes to sell it to make room in his garage for his other cars.
Built for the Canadian market, the car bears serial number DD017106 and there
will be no problem bringing the car into the states from it's current home in
Canada. Delivery anywhere in the world can also be arranged. Serious inquiries
should be directed to me personally via email, phone or fax.
James Espey
mikasa@goodnet.com
602/401-1923
602/464-5352 fax
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 12:55:07 -0500
Subject: And the winner is . . .
No, I'm not talking about the election.
Last week I noticed that there are now at least TWO DeLorean Parts resources on
the Internet. One is "The DeLorean Parts Depot at Kapac," the other is "DMC Parts
Online"
The DeLorean Parts Depot at Kapac is at: www.deloreanparts.com
DMC Parts Online is at:
http://www.valzog.com/dmc-parts/
The race is close to see who will have their website running at full capacity
first. Kapac had an early lead but as of November 1 they fell a little behind . . .
Currently, the Kapac site is still kind of retarded. After a full month of
operation there are still no "weekly specials" and much of the site is under
construction. The "weekly specials" will be the Kapac's big advantage, once
they that page going.
The DMC Parts Online page is now up and running, and it already includes a page
for requesting price quotes. They are not yet able to accept credit cards. Kapac
never takes credit cards anyway, so this will be DMC Parts Online's big advantage..
I expect other DeLorean parts vendors to appear on the web soon.
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: Blarness@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:32:09 -0500
Subject: Sewing machine lifters?
Another chapter from the "Name the Goofy DeLorean Noise" book.
This time it's a sound like a sewing machine. Both my Delorean AND my 61 and 62
Plymouth's with slant six's sound the same. I'd be willing to bet it's the cam
followers or low spring return pressures. With only 28,000 miles on the PRV why,
if this sounds right, would the followers (lifters) be ticking?
It also sounds like the noise could be coming more from the passenger's side than
the driver's side.
Any thoughts on what it might, why it would do this, and what can be done to stop
it? I'm almost going nuts listening to it. Good thing winter's almost here, I'll
be driving my '61 Plymouth for the next six months. At least the Plymouth has a
180,000 mile excuse.
- -C2
#3876
------------------------------
From: mousse@pixi.com (Mousse Lee)
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:30:25 -1000 (HST) Subject: Re: need help buying.
>Where do you live in Hawaii
>what island etc?
I live on Oahu, actually travel isn't a problem for me but shipping
would be and I don't want to absorb too many extra costs.
http://www.pixi.com/~mousse/
mousse@pixi.com
MousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMou sse
,. ,...,,,
,;' ...., ' ;' "Am I crazy or is it just you?
,;;:...;. `" .,;'`:, Another Chiba Reiko fan at large.
'" `' ::' :;
MousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMousseMou sse
http://www.adgrafix.com/info/klee2/ Web Server
Solutions
------------------------------
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