DeLorean Mailing List - 11/17/96
dmcnews-digest Sunday, 17 November 1996 Volume 02 : Number 196
In this issue:
Re: Inappropriate Chatter
NY DeLorean for sale
DMC parts
ADMIN NOTE: Please Read!
road trip
Re: Inappropriate Chatter
Cooling fan failure
Re: Inappropriate Chatter
Re: two cents on chatter
Gold Portfolio purchasing problems...
LISTEN
Re: Gold Portfolio purchasing problems...
Re: Fan Output
DeLoreans & museums in AZ
Re: Gold Portfolio purchasing problems...
Re: BTTF Car
New Newsletter?
Various items
Re: New Newsletter?
Monthly README from the List-Mom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott Tester
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996
00:20:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Inappropriate Chatter
At 04:54 PM 11/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I have to agree with Chris, who wrote that this whole discussion on 'spinning
wheels' belongs elsewhere. Lets make James' job a lot easier and keep the DML
focused on the DeLoreans maintenance and Marque enhancement through discussions
of relevant events and activities. Sorting through the messages to find the 'meat'
in the DML is getting tedious and it need not be that way.
>Best regards, The Silver Fox
>I know that probably nobody gives a #$@$# what I say. I think that Back to
the Future is a relevant subject associated with the DeLorean. If you don't want
to read the BTTF comments, Just don't read them. I don't know about you but I love
to get E-Mail and read anything I can. If you find sorting through E-Mail so
terrable, why did you subscribe to the list? Please don't take offense to my
comment because I am not trying to be rude! Thanks!
Scott Tester testersd@appstate.campus.mci.net
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 07:18:47 -0800
Subject: NY DeLorean for sale
In my daily web surfing activities, I ran across the ad from this past Sunday's
NY Times (www.nytimes.com)...
DELOREAN'81 STAINLESS STEEL
COUPE A/C, 12K Original Miles. Like New! wanted $20K will sacrifice $14,985,
Babied Since New. Always Garaged 609-822-4014
Thought I'd pass it along...
James
Everytime I think the world is moving so fast, I go to the post office.
------------------------------
From: tpm tpm39843@email.csun.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:57:11 +0100
Subject: DMC parts
For those interested, I have body panels and some other parts available for trade
or sale. I am interested in acquiring a right front fender and/or bumper. You can
e-mail me at tpm39843@csun1.csun.edu.
------------------------------
From: James Espey mikasa@goodnet.com
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 07:02:14 -0800
Subject: ADMIN NOTE: Please Read!
The scope of the DeLreoan Mailing List is as follows:
"Discussion of the DeLorean automobile, DeLorean Motor Company and John Z. DeLorean"
Please make sure that your postings are at least somewhat related to these topics.
If you want to respond to something someone else has written, and it's not directly
DeLorean related, just email that person directly, don't fill up the list with
things that don't belong there. Think before you post!
Additionally, please direct all postings for the list to: dmcnews@world.std.com.
Do not CC: any other "dmcnews" address as this will only result in multiple
postings. Everything sent to the "live" dmcnews@world.std.com address automatically
is forwarded to the digest subscribers.
James "Mikasa" Espey
List-Mom, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com
------------------------------
From: tpm tpm39843@email.csun.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:01:07 +0100
Subject: road trip
Is anyone driving their DMC from L.A. to AZ this Thanksgiving? I've wanted to
drive amidst a flock of stainless steel gullwings for quite some time. E-mail me!
------------------------------
From: Paul Parkanzky p-parkanzky@onu.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:09:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Inappropriate Chatter
At 12:20 AM 11/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>At 04:54 PM 11/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>>I have to agree with Chris, who wrote that this whole discussion on 'spinning
wheels' belongs elsewhere. Lets make James' job a lot easier and keep the DML
focused on the DeLoreans maintenance and Marque enhancement through discussions
of relevant events and activities. Sorting through the messages to find the 'meat'
in the DML is getting tedious and it need not be that way.
>>Best regards, The Silver Fox
>>I know that probably nobody gives a #$@$# what I say. I think that Back to
tthe Future is a relevant subject associated with the DeLorean. If you don't want
to read the BTTF comments, Just don't read them. I don't know about you but I
love to get E-Mail and read anything I can. If you find sorting through E-Mail
so terrable, why did you subscribe to the list? Please don't take offense to my
comment because I am not trying to be rude! Thanks!
>Scott Tester testersd@appstate.campus.mci.net
Scott,
I subscribe for information on the Delorean like typical problems, the electrical
mods, D's for sale, good repair shops, etc so that I can build a database of info
for my (hopeful) purchase this summer. So far I've found the DMC list to be a
great resource, but I'm subscribed to one other automotive list (MGs) and I get
about 100 messages/day from that one. I spend a lot of time sorting through "list
fluff" and irrelevant (or barely relevant) threads. If you want to talk about BTTF
great, but I'm subscribed to a list about a car, not a movie. From what I
understand there is a Back to the Future Fan Club you could join.
So, in answer to your question, I'm not subscribed to this list b/c I like to fill
my in-box, I'm subscribed for information about the Delorean.
**************************************
Paul Parkanzky
Ohio Northern University
p-parkanzky@onu.edu
**************************************
------------------------------
From: Knut S Grimsrud (Knut_S_Grimsrud@ccm.jf.intel.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 07:50:00 PST
Subject: Cooling fan failure
Blarness@aol.com writes:
>My cooling fans used to come on as soon as I turned the key to the RUN position.
>Now they don't come on AT ALL. Idling in city traffic is "hot". About 220
acording to the gauge. I end up driving with the heat on to keep it cool when
I'm sitting for long periods. Otherwise it stay quite cool.
>What should I be looking for because I have no blown fuses in the block. Help.
There have already been a number of replies on the fact that this is all screwed
up, so I won't say it again. Instead I will suggest a couple quick & easy tests
to isolate the problem.
Proper operation : cooling fans should come on one needle width above the 160
degree mark (not labeled on the gauge, but the mark halfway between 100 & 220
on the gauge) and the fans should come on whenever the A/C compressor is running
(which is not necessarily the same as when the A/C is on as the compressor will
cycle on and off the keep the refrigerant pressure up). Overheating a PRV engine
is not a good idea.
A simple diagnostic to perform is to disconnect the two wires on the thermal
switch (located in the coolant pipe on the driver's side of the engine compartment
approximately above the catalytic converter) and short the two wires together
using a jumper. If the electricals are working properly, the fans should now run.
If they do not, pull out the car's wiring diagram and follow the signals from the
thermal switch (which you now shorted) and see where they disappear. If the fans
used to run all the time then you may have finally burned out en electrical
component (like the breaker). Also ensure the fan fail module has been removed
and an the jumper modification used in its place.
If the fans do come on when you short the wires on the thermal switch then the
problem is one of three things.
1. The thermal switch is bad (I have gone through a couple on my car - -- it seems
to fail whenever I flush the coolant system or drain the coolant for repair reasons.
Perhaps the switch does not fare well being exposed after having been immersed for
extended periods?). The repair procedure says to drain the cooling system to
replace it, but this is not entirely necessary. The switch is a push-in type
retained by a little clip. WITH THE CAR COLD, you can yank the old switch out
and quickly stuff the new one in, spilling about a cup of coolant in the process.
2. The coolant level in the system is low. Low coolant level causes the water pump
to vapor lock and circulation ceases. The coolant near the thermal switch stays cool
thereby not activating it, while the gauge sensor is at the top of the engine which
will get hot. If your car runs cool when you are moving (air forced through the
radiator), then this is likely not the case.
3. Dead water pump. For the same reason as #2, if the pump is not circulating the
coolant, the coolant at the thermal switch will stay cool while the temperature
in the engine gets high.
By what you describe, it sounds like you have electrical problems. The thermal
switch bypass can still be a good diagnostic tool.
Knut Grimsrud
DOA Chapter 41
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net (Dick Ryan)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:39:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Inappropriate Chatter
Every argument is like a coin --- it has two sides. However, I,too, am not
interested in the BTTF chatter.
BTTF made the DMC 12 the most recognized 8500 unit production car in the world.
I think only the Beetle is more generally recognized. We have kids who were born
after the last DMC 12 was made and yet they all know the car. This, perhpas, is
good.
On the other side of the coin, I believe that BTTF trivialized the car and made
it into a "toy" and may be primarily responsible for the lack of respect it
receives on it's own merits.
My two cents
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny (SUBSTEM@cesmtp.ccf.org)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:29:29 -0500
Subject: Re: two cents on chatter
The chatter topic is bound to come up frequently as the list expands, so I won't
take up too much of your E-mail time with my comments now. Here's a thought:
When the first messages were talking about the "spinning wheels" special effect
from the movie I was ignoring them.
But when the question was restated the issue became the true performance and
handling of the DeLorean, which I find interesting and relevant. I would support
continued discussion of how to drive a stock DeLorean through various maneuvers,
including stunts.
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: backissues@dmcnews.com (Ian (WDOA))
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:17:19 +0000
Subject: Gold Portfolio purchasing problems...
Well here I am, trying to get the 1977 - 1995 Gold Portfolio book from the DOA
and... I cant get to them.
My emails bounce, my faxes are not picked up, and I am at a loss. =(
Can anyone in the DOA (as I am not yet a member) help me with this problem?? I
would *love* to get my hands on that book.
thanks for the help and I'm sorry to bother the list with this.
- -Ian
________________________________________________________________________
:x: Email: backissues@dmcnews.com :x: :x: IRC: "RickHuntr" :x:
Industriall strength high school student and proud member and head
'whozit' of the WDOA. (Wanna-bee DeLorean Owners Association)
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: jason74@juno.com (Jason T Brown)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:43:24 PST
Subject: LISTEN
Listen! Back to the future the movie does pertain to the delorean. I asked htat
question so I would know what a delorean could actualy do?(the performance). What
about the posting about the deloreans doors opening when it is upside down, I
didn't care about that I just ignored it and deleted it.
SO GET OVER IT!
Jason
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:00:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Gold Portfolio purchasing problems...
>Well here I am, trying to get the 1977 - 1995 Gold Portfolio book from the DOA
and... I cant get to them.
>My emails bounce, my faxes are not picked up, and I am at a loss. =(
>Can anyone in the DOA (as I am not yet a member) help me with this problem?? I
would *love* to get my hands on that book.
>thanks for the help and I'm sorry to bother the list with this.
>-Ian
>________________________________________________________________________
>:x: Email: backissues@dmcnews.com :x: :x: IRC: "RickHuntr" :x:
>Industriall strength high school student and proud member and head
''whozit' of the WDOA. (Wanna-bee DeLorean Owners Association)
________________________________________________________________________
Just last week I faxed for the book in question and received my copy by return
mail within one week. I do not know if the offer is limited to DOA members;
however, on the off chance you do not have the correct phone #, fax to Marci
Haug at (818) 547-3638 and include a credit card #.
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 10:38:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Fan Output
>Jason Winter wrote:
>>I have just completed a radiator change(along with all the hoses) and put in a
new blower motor for the AC(the old one is shot). When I got the new motor hooked
up and running, there was little airflow through the vents. Is there anything I
can do to get more air flow?
Jason - someone earlier this year did a big comparison/check and made a nice web
page out of the whole thing. I have it posted on the back issues server, but not
linked anywhere. Here is the URL:
http://www.goodnet.com/~mikasa/fan_motor_characteristics.html
Hope this helps!
James
------------------------------
From: NathH@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:21:16 -0500
Subject: DeLoreans & museums in AZ
I am making my first trip to Arizona later next week. I was wondering if there are
any good museums or collections to view a DeLorean in either Phoenix or Tuscon, or
anywhere in between. I've got a couple days off while there and would enjoy
tracking one down. I don't own a DeLorean (yet) and haven't seen one up close for
years, despite my interest.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Nathan Hanson
------------------------------
From: Henry Breer Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 17:38:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Gold Portfolio purchasing problems...
Ian (WDOA) wrote:
>Well here I am, trying to get the 1977 - 1995 Gold Portfolio book from the DOA
and... I cant get to them.
>My emails bounce, my faxes are not picked up, and I am at a loss. =(
>Can anyone in the DOA (as I am not yet a member) help me with this problem?? I
would *love* to get my hands on that book.
>thanks for the help and I'm sorry to bother the list with this. Ian,
Recently, Marcie's fax machine was on the fritz so our products division was hard
to reach. All Fixed Now so you might try again.
Hank
------------------------------
From: "Brendan O'Mara" Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:22:34 -0800
Subject: Re: BTTF Car
I don't want to get pounced about RESPONDING to a BTTF question either, but yea,
maybe you could remote control it, but if you look really close at the dog in that
scene, he looks a little bigger than before.. like a guy in a dog suit. Is it just
me?
Brendan
------------------------------
From: ausmith@pdx.oneworld.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:20:01 +0000
Subject: New Newsletter?
Considering the traffic, of late, concerning things not relevant to the DMC, would
anyone be interested in a forum strictly related to the technical aspects of owning
a DeLorean?
I am thinking of a list that would require a participants vin to be a member. Anyone
could read the traffic, but only owners could post. The other traffic would have
to go elsewhere.
Chris
------------------------------
From: Mpeak@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 21:17:22 -0500
Subject: Various items
Well, I just wanted to throw my thoughts in to some of the discussions going on:
New upholstery:
I've been using a product called Zymol packaged as a leather cleaner and
conditioner and it works great. It is rather expensive, though. Maybe I'll try
some of the other suggestions next time.
Back to the Future:
Because the current discussions of Back to the future involve information about
the car and no other aspect about the movie, I feel this talk is completely relevant.
I have never done any of these moves in my Delorean, but I have in a Mustang that
was begging for abuse. The rear tires spinning is called a brake stand. Put on the
brake, pop the clutch, and floor it.
Impressive looking, but completely destroys your rear brakes. The rear tail slide
is done using the emergency brake, since this brake only locks the rear tires.
Remember to put in the clutch first.
Relay Update kits:
With places like Delorean One charging over $200 for a relay update kit, one has
to look at what one is actually getting for this outrageous price. All of the
parts offered in the relay update kits (except the fused wire harness link) can
be bought at your local economy imports. The Bosch relays are $6 each and the
circuit breakers are in the same area. I don't think the fused wire harness link
is $134.
Jason Winter:
If your lack of air problem is the same as mine, I know why there isn't any air,
but I don't know what to do about it. If you remove the center air vents, there
is a yellow shield that is blocking air flow. It swings up when pushed and is
connected to a cable designed to open and close it, but I do not know what
stimulates it to open or close. Therefore I have no air coming through my center
air vents. Any suggestions?
Alternators:
Can somebody please explain why the original Decullier alternator is replaced with
the Motorolla unit? Is the only reason people are replacing the Ducelliers with
Motorollas because the later models came with the Motorolla?
The Delorean is known to have an underpowered alternator, so why, if you are going
to replace it, would you replace it with one that is only 10 amps more powerful?
Is anyone running an alternator other than a Ducellier or Motorolla? Also, what
causes the Ducellier to fail? I've heard water being one problem. Is this true?
What are some others? The reason I am asking is becuase I would like to replace
mine with a Bosch (which is known for very high quality products) 110 amp unit
that is about half the price of the Motorolla but would like to know what the
downsides are to this.
Question for Devil-Wolf:
Why wouldn't you just get a more powerful alternator instead of a larger battery?
I would suspect that your battery will eventually go dead since the alternator
will not be able to meet the charging needs and discharge will exceed recharge.
Parking brake pads:
Does anybody know the cross reference numbers for the parking brake pads?
Shock absorbers:
Are a set of Girlings the best shock absorbers to put on the car? Has anyone
replaced their original Girlings with something besides Girlings? Any comments
about the different ride or handling?
Bay Area owners:
Are there any owners out there from the San Francisco Bay Area? If so, could you
please drop me a line telling me where you get your car serviced? The closest
place listed in the DOA brochure is over in Monterey.
- -Matt
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 01:42:33 -0700
Subject: Re: New Newsletter?
>Considering the traffic, of late, concerning things not relevant to the DMC,
would anyone be interested in a forum strictly related to the technical aspects
of owning a DeLorean?
Like it or not, BTTF will always be a part of the DeLorean's history. I dae say
that without the movie, the car would be merely an automotive footnote, next to
the Bricklin. Those that grew up with BTTF are the ones buying these cars today
and in the future (no pun intended).
As far as the likelihood of starting another list/forum for DMC discussion, I
won't start one. IMO, not only is the marque to small to support another list,
but the number of actual DeLorean owners on the 'net is too few anyway.
Additionally, since giving notice last week that I am looking for someone to
take over the list, I received a half-dozen replies, I responded to each of
them with the "what it takes" to run the list, and only one is still interested.
>I am thinking of a list that would require a participants vin to be a member.
Anyone could read the traffic, but only owners could post. The other traffic
would have to go elsewhere.
Not connected to the "DeLorean Preservation Society" (http://www.delorean.com)
by any chance are you? Seems that they've been trying to pull a similar stunt
for several months now.
This list, as long as I maintain it, will be open to ANYONE, of any age, or
facet of DeLorean-related interest. I have sent private email to some people
who I believe are pushing the limits of the scope of the discussion list.
They have been put on notice that future "off-topic" postings will result in
their temporary suspension from the list.
I encourage EVERYONE to use the "delete" command on their email software
before pissing and moaning about the "chatter", when in fact YOU ARE JUST
ADDING TO IT! Additionally, when responding to a posting on the list, take a
few moments and think if it really is relevant to the WHOLE LIST, or if you
should just send it directly to the person who posted the initial message.
Anyone that would like to comment on anything I've written here is more than
welcome to EMAIL ME PRIVATELY about it.
James "Mikasa" Espey
List-owner, DeLorean Mailing List
mikasa@goodnet.com
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 01:56:34 -0700
Subject: Monthly README from the List-Mom
This message will be posted monthly and will also be available from the web apge.
I encourage everyone to read it, especially the recent subscribers. PLEASE PAY
PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO #8 OF THE RULES SECTION. Thanks!
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -
Welcome to DMC-News, the DeLorean Mailing List!
Last update: 11/16/96
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -
This document describes how to be a happy member of the DMC-News family. Think of
this mailing list as an informal conversation around the dinner table. Ask
RELEVANT questions, or just sit and listen. Break the rules and you will be
excused from the table. And, as with the dinner table, if you want to leave,
you must ask to be dismissed. ;)
This list server is an informal means for everyone interested in the DeLorean to
share information. It is intended as a means to promote the marque, and is not an
official source of information from either the DeLorean Owner's Association or any
DeLorean parts/service facility.
CONTENT
- -------
(1) The Rules
(2) Important Addresses, URLs and other Stuff (3) Server Commands
THE RULES
- ---------
To avoid utter chaos and anarchy, the List-Mom wears the pants around here. Break
the rules and suffer the penalty. If you have a complaint about a posting, tell
the List-Mom - NOT THE REST OF THE LIST! If you are caught bickering on the list,
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Make the List-Mom angry, and your access privileges will be (at least temporarily)
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(1) No Flaming - on or off line. "Just Be Nice". (2) No cross-posting. If you
have multiple subscriptions, pick the most appropriate mailing list for your email.
(3) Do your homework. Please read any relevant FAQs (see below)
or manuals first.
(4) Stay on topic. NO chain letters or political endorsements.
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(6) KISS -- Keep It Short and Simple. Trim quoted material,
and keep your signatures short.
(7) Use an appropriate subject. Summarize your post in the subject.
Descriptive subjects get more attention. (8) Use discretion. Post prudently, and
send private emails when appropriate.
If you are ever in doubt about the rules, consult the List-Mom first.
IMPORTANT ADDRESSES, URLs AND OTHER LIST SERVERS -
------------------------------------------------
Several email addresses you should add to your address book:
DMC-News Mailing List
Your connection to the DMC-News world.
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A shoulder to cry on.
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This is how you unsubscribe (see below for server commands).
Useful web sites:
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SERVER COMMANDS
- ---------------
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If you use multiple addresses - only the ones with subscriptions will allow you
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The easiest way to subscribe is thru email.
To join the list:
Send "subscribe dmcnews" in the body of an email message
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Enjoy the DeLorean Mailing List, DMC-News
James "Mikasa" Espey
List-Mom, DeLorean Mailing List
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V2 #196
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