DeLorean Mailing List - 11/19/96
dmcnews-digest Tuesday, 19 November 1996 Volume 02 : Number 197
In this issue:
Re: BTTF Car
PARTS FOR SALE!!!!!!
Alternatoring (is that a word?...hehe)
ADMIN NOTE: Democracy on the list
COOLING FAN TEMP SWITCH, DUCELLIER ALT, & BTTF
Re: Alternators and Original Stock
Hard Drivin'
DeLorean for sale - $9500
DMC Spoilers
Re: DMC Spoilers
ADMIN NOTE: Changes to DMC-News
Did you buy seat covers from Swedish?
Re: spoiler. Frustration with DML Subject Lines
Re: New Newsletter?
(6) Six DeLoreans for sale
Poor ventilation
Re: Alternators and Original Stock
Re: (6) Six DeLoreans for sale
need advice- clutch cylinders
Re: Alternators and bad grounds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Brendan O'Mara"
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:54:48 -0800
Subject: Re: BTTF Car
>This is the type of message that SHOULD HAVE been directed to the person line
1who posted the initial message, NOT THE WHOLE LIST. Think before you post,
respond to the correct person when necessary - not the list.
>Future off-topic or inappropriate postings will result in your subscription to
the list being suspended.
>James "Mikasa" Espey
>List-owner, DeLorean Mailing List
I would like to point out that I completely agree with this theory, but since I
didn't start it I don't appreciate being used as the 'example' of an
inappropriate message.
Brendan
------------------------------
From: dgf108(AT)psu.edu (Damien Falato)
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:58:55 -0500
Subject: PARTS FOR SALE!!!!!!
O.K., the anual Kapac sale has come and gone and by now all of you have read
about all of the wonderfull deals you missed out on. Well, a few vultures such
as myself knew this was going to happen. Here is the list of things I have for
sale after visiting Kapac including what I want to sell it for and what the
retail is.
tool kits, quantity=5, retail=70.00, my price=30.00
Catalitic convertors, quantity=3, retail=495.00, my price=260.00
engine compartment light, quantity=3, retail=30.00, my price=15.00
craig radios, quantity=2, retail=250-350.00, my prce=100.00
compressor AC, quantity=4, retail=225.00, my price=100.00
carbon cannister, quantity=3, retail=70.00, my price=25.00
High beam headlights, quantity=4, retail=7.00, my price=5.00
Low beam headlights, quantity=4, retail=7.00, my price=5.00
cigarete lighters, quantity=3, retail 25.00, my price=10.00
Black & silver wheel caps, quantity=4, retail=10.00, my price=5.00
AC accumulator bottles, quantity=4, retail=118.00, my price=40.00
Front ASI speakers, quantity=4, retail=25.00, my price=10.00
Rear ASI speakers, quantity=4, retail=55.00, my price=10.00
Luggage racks, quantity=8, retail=245.00, my price=80.00
Hood Emblems, quantity=3, retail=55.00, my price=20.00
If interested in any of these items please call Damien Falato at 1-814-453-2303.
Do not E-mail me in regard to items listed for sale. All prices are plus the cost
of shipping to wherever you may be from my location in Erie PA. No merchandise
will be sent out untill either a certified check, cashiers check, money order,
or personl check that has been deposited and cleared has been recieved. I can
not process credit cards.
------------------------------
From: Solitary Man
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 09:52:30 -0800
Subject: Alternatoring (is that a word?...hehe)
>Question for Devil-Wolf:
>Why wouldn't you just get a more powerful alternator instead of a larger battery?
I would suspect that your battery will eventually go dead since the alternator will
not be able to meet the charging needs and discharge will exceed recharge.
And that 110 amp alternator is on my checklist. I'm taking things one at a time.
The alternator will be about $100, plus the remounting work, whereas the battery
just slips in. This saves me the time out in the cold dismounting the old alternator
and putting the new one in. And speaking of cold, I've noticed that the original
replacment battery just wasn't sufficient 9 times out of 10, to start the car in
the cold weather. I was at Les Schwab to buy tired and...a new battery isn't really
that expensive, so I just assume have them thow one in with the tires. The warm
weather will be coming through, time to run through my checklist, see what I can
do in the garage, but when it warms up and I can work outdoors, That 110 amp
alternator goes in. I shudder to think of another summer without more power to
fuel my electrically hungry DeLorean.
-WOOFIE!
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 11:58:06 -0700
Subject: ADMIN NOTE: Democracy on the list
While I doubt anyone will say that I have "ruled the list with an iron hand"
(except maybe the guy that I unsubbed this morning), what say that we put the whole
BTTF issue to a vote?
I enjoyed the movies, and admit to owning some BTTF "stuff". The car will never be
able to separate itseld from the movies, I don't think.
However, this list was originally setup to provide (1) technical support for
DeLorean owners and (2) a forum for the exchange of parts and memorabilia. BTTF
never entered into the equation.
THEREFORE, ALL LIST MEMBERS are encouraged to EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AT
mikasa(AT)goodnet.com with your vote in the SUBJECT OF YOUR MESSAGE as follows:
BTTF - YES
or
BTTF - NO
Votes sent the list will be discarded, and the voting will end on Sunday, November
24th. In the meantime, the list is back on moderation - expect delays in your
postings.
James "Mikasa" Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
------------------------------
From: Delornut(AT)aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 13:39:26 -0500
Subject: COOLING FAN TEMP SWITCH, DUCELLIER ALT, & BTTF
The early DeLoreans had an aluminum water pipe from the water pump to the cooling
fan temp switch. The switch was mounted on the top of the pipe where
it was possible to not contact the coolant if enough air was in the system.
Without water to complete the circuit, the switch wouldn't work. Later models
moved the switch to the bottom of the pipe and the pipe itself was partially
eliminated and replaced with a hose from the pump to the small section of pipe
that contains the switch.
The Ducellier alternator packaged the diodes internally where there was more
susceptibility to heat and diode failure was a common result. The motorolla
is a better design with the diodes better positioned and failure is rare with
that alternator.
All of the DeLoreans in the BTTF films were automatics. The parking lot sequence
used a lot of soap. The close ups of spinning tires were done with
the rear wheels jacked up a bit to take some weight off them . The rear brakes were
disconnected and a liberal amount of soap was sprayed on them. The parking lot
itself was hosed down to induce a slippery surface. The "small clutch, big tire
" configuration of the DeLorean makes tire spinning burnouts an impossibility.
With that said, I fall in with those that would really rather have the BTTF
related items left to another format. I feel this news letter should pertain
to the care and feeding of the automobile and not promote it as a
characterization of a sports car.
Bruce Benson
------------------------------
From: Chase Clark
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 14:04:03 -0000
Subject: Re: Alternators and Original Stock
I have returned (slowly) after a 10 day stretch of no Internet service thanks to
problems with my ISP and that now have been connected. I am still catching up on
the 334 email messages that were awaiting me. Once I am caught up expect to see
more postings and other items.
Anyway, as far as the debate about the Ducellier and Motorolla alternators
goes...it is a moot point anymore. No new Motorolla alternators remain and I
believe that it is quickly becoming impossible to even find parts for them.
Suprisingly some NOS Ducelliers still exist which is what KAPAC/DeLorean Depot
sends if you were to order a complete engine from them like Knut did a few
months ago.
BTW, I am guilty of sometimes posting to the list by mistake when I meant to
reply to only one person, so I am not going to gripe out the occasional error
by someone else, but it seems the majority of postings this past week have been
"moody" rather than "helpful."
~ Chase
------------------------------
From: Widdomaker(AT)aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:39:17 -0500
Subject: Hard Drivin'
Anyone know where I can get a copy of Hard Drivin? The autographed one listed
here sold before I could get to it.
------------------------------
From: Sudaesh1(AT)aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:32:31 -0500
Subject: DeLorean for sale - $9500
I have to sell my D
'81, grey interior, 5 speed, new tires, asking $9,500.
Odometer reads 65,000 but it is actually at about 67,000 (spedo broke)
write to:
Icicle boy(AT)aol.com
with any questions.
------------------------------
From: Dave
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:06:23 -0800
Subject: DMC Spoilers
Why do some DeLoreans have spoilers, and some don't? Is it a modification, or was
there different DeLoreans produced?
Dave
------------------------------
From: James Espey, mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:04:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: DMC Spoilers
>Why do some DeLoreans have spoilers, and some don't? Is it a modification, or
was there different DeLoreans produced?
No DeLorean ever came from the factory with a rear spoiler or any kind of ground
effects. A Teri Jennings of Azusa, CA used to sell a "whale tail" spoiler that
attached to the louvre, but I don't think she sells stuff anymore (someone
correct me if I'm wrong).
James
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 10:46:46 -0800
Subject: ADMIN NOTE: Changes to DMC-News
Effective this morning, I've made some minor changes to the mailing list, which
should be unnoticeable to all subscribers, however, I think they're important to
note.
1. All subscription requests must now be approved by the moderator. This is to
keep someone who has been unsubscribed for flagrant list violations from just
re-subscribing.
2. Only those people that are subscribed to the list can post to the list. The
reason for this is two-fold, (a) this keeps spamming to a minimum and,
(b) prevents someone who has been unsubscribed from posting to the list anyway.
All BTTF-related posts, and posts related to the issue of whether or not BTTF
should or shouldn't be here are bbeing suppressed until the voting is complete
(see DMC-News message - ADMIN NOTE: Democracy on the list). I encourage you all
to vote as outlined in that message.
Questions? Comments? Bags of money? Email me.
James "Mikasa" Espey
Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
http://www.dmcnews.com
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 13:57:08 -0800
Subject: Did you buy seat covers from Swedish?
If you bought leather seat covers from Swedish before they sold off their DMC
parts business to Grady, please email me. I'd like to talk to you! Thanks!
James
mikasa(AT)goodnet.com
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:33:11 -0500
Subject: Re: spoiler. Frustration with DML Subject Lines
SPOILER
Dave asked:
>Why do some DeLoreans have spoilers, and some don't?
Normally the factory would not have added a spoiler to any DeLorean. Some of the
spoilers you see are aftermarket, other may have been installed by dealers. There
may be a few oddball cars (Legend Twin Turbo Prototype comes to mind) with various
"original" modifications.
SUBJECT LINES
I am personally frustrated by inadequate subject lines in DML postings. Your
subject line will eventually become part of the Back Issues, and it will be used
by all of us to find the information you posted. I suggest that a long, technical
message should have a long, technical, DESCRIPTIVE subject line.
I further suggest that future references to the DeLorean in the media include the
title of the television show / movie somewhere in the subject line. This way those
who aren't interested can hit the "delete" key before they even open the message.
Failure to comply might result in me sending you an E-mail chain letter as
punishment. :-)
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:53:21 -0500
Subject: Re: New Newsletter?
>would anyone be interested in a forum strictly related to the technical aspects
of owning a DeLorean?
I see no benefit to such a list. I doubt that it would attract any vast, untapped
group of DeLorean guru's who are online. Also, from the rules suggested, the new
list would still accept 95% of the messages we currently get.
Since many of us will continue our DML subscriptions anyway, a second list would
only *increase* the number of message we had to read, without increasing the
value of the information.
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 22:30:04 -0000
Subject: (6) Six DeLoreans for sale
Found these while surfing tonight - anyone know of these cars, or know details
about them?
(California - LA area)
1. Delorean - Delorean, 81, - $10,000, (619)271-8540
(California - SF area)
2. Delorean - Delorean, 81, 18k, $19,500/OBO, (415)753-3938
(Connecticut)
3. Delorean - Delorean, 82, 53k, $14,500/OBO, (203)831-9861
(Florida)
4. Delorean - Delorean, 81, 6k, $14,000/OBO, (904)677-5323
(Ohio)
5. Delorean - Delorean, 81, 5k, $30,000/OBO, email:
broker(AT)prism-services.com
6. Delorean - Delorean DMC12, 81, 20k, $13,000/OBO, email: broker(AT)prism-services.com
James
Surfin' while I should be sleepin'
------------------------------
From: magriese(AT)VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 23:41:18 CST
Subject: Poor ventilation
The flap in the center vent is controlled by the mode switch in the center console.
You will need to get a vacuum diagram to figure out what is wrong.
Basically, as you rotate the mode switch through the various ventilation options,
the switch controls a vacuum header that is the back half of the switch itself. The
problem could be in the switch (a port in the header could be blocked) or in the
vacuum lines, or in the vacuum actuator that moves the flap. You can rebuild the
mode switch yourself by removing it from the dash and disassembling the back half
and giving it a thorough cleaning. Don't forget to apply some lubricant to the
switch while reassembling. The grease provides the seal for the vacuum. If you have
a vacuum leak, you should hear a hissing noise from behind the dash.
Mike Griese
magriese(AT)vnet.ibm.com
------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:46:59 -0800
Subject: Re: Alternators and Original Stock
At 02:04 PM 11/17/96 -0000, you wrote:
>I have returned (slowly) after a 10 day stretch of no Internet service thanks to
problems with my ISP and that now have been connected. I am still catching up on
the 334 email messages that were awaiting me. Once I am caught up expect to see
more postings and other items. No new Motorola alternators remain and I believe
that it is quickly becoming impossible to even find parts for them.
- ----------------------------------------------------
Chase - the question is what can be used as a replacement for the Motorola
compressor, not that I need one, but just out of curiousity.. Regards,
Marv
------------------------------
From: prism(AT)prism-services.com
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:15:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: (6) Six DeLoreans for sale
These are already sold.
>5. Delorean - Delorean, 81, 5k, $30,000/OBO, email:
>broker(AT)prism-services.com
>6. Delorean - Delorean DMC12, 81, 20k, $13,000/OBO, email: broker(AT)prism-services.com
Prism Internet Services
- ------------------------
Specialists in Web Design
http://prism-services.com
------------------------------
From: breinan(AT)ortho.bwh.harvard.edu (Howie Breinan) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:21:18 -0500
Subject: need advice- clutch cylinders
I am having my '81 fixed up for sale or use. After storage for most of 10 years,
the brake and clutch master cylinders are leaking. I am having these replaced. The
mechanic suggested also replacing the clutch slave, adding $150 to my bill. Should
I do this?
Please respond directly to me, today if possible (Tuesday)- I want to get back to
him tomorrow, and I may not get my Digest version in time. Thanks!
Howie Breinan
breinan(AT)ortho.bwh.harvard.edu
------------------------------
From: "MARK HERSHEY" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:18:05 +0000
Subject: Re: Alternators and bad grounds
Here's my thoughts and experiences on alternators: The original Decullier
alternator is considered unreliable-- mine failed with bearing problems, probably
related to weather exposure due to its rather unfortunate position. As far as I
know the only reason people are replacing the
Ducelliers with Motorolas is because the later models came with the Motorola--I
replaced mine with a 100-amp model off a Cadillac Fleetwood-- bought a standard
alternator "J" bracket, sawed one end off to shorten it a little, and bolted the
Fleetwood unit in the original place. no mechanical mods whatsoever, can put the
Ducy back anytime.
That was about seven years ago, no problems since. Both the Ducy and GM alternators
have built-in regulators; just make a wiring harness adapter to connect the two
original leads to the GM alternator. ...
>The Delorean is known to have an underpowered alternator...
Common comment, mostly incorrect. The deLorean has no more electrics/electronics
than any other compact car of its day, and the Ducy had enough capacity to handle
it. BUT, DeLoreans have a particularly lame grounding system-- not much bonded
steel in the car-- so most people see the following symptoms and blame it on low
alternator output: lights dim when you turn on the A/C, , blower motor slows down
when you turn on the lights, voltmeter reads low, turn signals change flash speeds
when you step on the gas, etc.
So why do larger alternators seem to cure the problem?? Simple-- the alternator's
built-in regulator has a voltage sense lead that senses the voltage level at a
point near the instrument cluster. The sense lead reports a slightly low voltage,
due to inadequate grounds, and "tells" the alternator to up its voltage until it
reaches 12 V(actually, about 13-point-something) at the sense lead. Actual voltage
at the alternator reached as high as 15 volts on my car. Big alternators can
supply the extra demand, smaller ones are already at peak and simply run wide
open, so to speak.
The cure?? Not so simple. I ran some really heavy gauge wire (welding cable,
rubber covered, heavy duty) terminated with ring lugs, between the battery's
negative post and a
point on the front of the chassis where the front crush section bolts on to the
frame. Significant difference. Ran a slightly smaller wire from the same point to
a point behind the console where all the black ground wires came together. Big
difference in voltmeter readings. Also, trace the battery's black lead back to the
point where it attaches to a bolt-- then undo it, clean off the corrosion, put it
back, and smear the exposed portions with a bit of dielectric grease (small tube
at any auto supply store) You'll see a difference.
>I would like to replace mine with a Bosch (which is known for very high quality
products) 110 amp unit that is about half the price of the Motorolla but would
like to know what the downsides are to this.
Should work great-- just make sure that the pully's line up exactly. Even a slight
misalignment will shorten belt life.
>Question for Devil-Wolf:
>Why wouldn't you just get a more powerful alternator instead of a larger battery?
I would suspect that your battery will eventually go dead since the alternator will
not be able to meet the charging needs and discharge will exceed recharge.
Alternators only charge a battery when the terminal voltage of the battery falls
below a minimum threshold-- the lower the terminal voltage,
the more 'agressive' the charge. Running around in a deLorean in the daytime would
adequately charge a battery the size of watermelon using an alternator out of a VW
Beatle. The trick is to have an alternator that can put out as much current as
worst-case peak demand, which, in the DeLorean is considerably less than 100 amps
(except when cranking, of course) , plus a little extra to put back into the battery,
so to speak. Bigger battery would help you crank longer, and it would tend to maintain
terminal voltage longer if your alternator could not put out enough to handle
worst-case demand, but it would not cure the root problem...
Mark Hershey
mhershey(AT)sritelecom.com
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V2 #197
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