Wednesday, 9 October 1996 Volume 02 : Number 184
In this issue:
Re: KAPAC
Re: KAPAC
Know
Springs Sets
Re: Springs Sets
Bad Cam Scare Page
My weekend trip to KAPAC & points in between
Mini-Review "The Ulitimate Classic Car Book"
Kapac Page
5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
Re: 5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
Hood Cable
Re: Hood Cable
Re: 5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
Re: Mini-Review "The Ulitimate Classic Car Book"
Re: maintenance / 5 spd / trunk latch / DMC drawings
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DMC81sle@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:27:22 -0400
Subject: Re: KAPAC
Hi all,
Being a fairly new DMC owner, I would appreciate it if someone would post
KAPACs address and phone info. Thanks in advance !
Scott Engelhart
'81 # 1604
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 18:26:07 -0600
Subject: Re: KAPAC
>Hi all,
>Being a fairly new DMC owner, I would appreciate it if someone would post
>KAPACs address and phone info. Thanks in advance !
>Scott Engelhart
>'81 # 1604
Scott - try the net at www.deloreanparts.com/
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
From: jason74@juno.com (Jason T Brown)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 22:07:49 PST
Subject: Know
Does anyone know if there is a place in North carolina that would service
a delorean? Is there any for sell in NC?
------------------------------
From: "Frederick Embden"
Date: 08 Oct 1996 10:08:10 GMT
Subject: Springs Sets
I have contacted a coil spring manufactoring company about the possibility of
designing "lowered" springs for the DeLorean. Of course his interest would
depend on the response from this mailing list. A possible combination of fronts
only or full sets to be discussed. If any member of this list has an interest,
you may email me directly
at "notes.fembden@a50vm1.trg.nynex.com"
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net (Dick Ryan)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:59:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Springs Sets
>I have contacted a coil spring manufactoring company about the possibility of
>designing "lowered" springs for the DeLorean. Of course his interest would
>depend on the response from this mailing list. A possible combination of fronts
>only or full sets to be discussed. If any member of this list has an interest,
>you may email me directly
>at "notes.fembden@a50vm1.trg.nynex.com"
Fred - I think this has been done before - another Fred - Lockett, I
believe - "the DeLorean pilot" in PA offered them for sale. My car was
lowered "the old fashioned way" by DeLorean Motor Center many years ago and
I ma very happy with the look and the ride.
------------------------------
From: Delornut@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 18:59:23 -0400
Subject: Bad Cam Scare Page
There's been some comment about the web page regarding bad cams on the PVR6
engines. If you read it closely the problems are attributable to poor
maintenance such as infrequent oil changes and over heating. I know it's
scary if you don't know the history of your engine but there are many
DeLoreans running around with over 100,000 miles and no cam problems. I put
it in the category of the plastic radiator tank syndrome. If you look under
the hood of every car made over the last 10 or 12 years you'll find plastic
tanks in practically every one. The tanks are proven to be durable. It is
becoming obvious that the DeLorean doesn't survive abuse or poor maintenance
as well as more mundane cars but most of us have a stronger interest in the
DeLorean than our every day drivers. Regular maintenance is more a labor of
love than work. It's a car like all other cars but with a few more
idiosyncrasies. Learn what they are and work with them and the car can be
extremely reliable.
Bruce Benson
------------------------------
From: James Espey
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 96 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: My weekend trip to KAPAC & points in between
Gee, where to start? While in Nashville last month at the 1996 DOA expo,
I was invited by Chapter 23 (and DML member) Mike Substelny to attend
their annual KAPAC tour and technical seminar in Columbus in October. I
had always wanted to visit KAPAC, and this seemed like an excellent
opportunity. (For those who don't know, KAPAC is the company that was
originally contracted to move the contents of the factory and the Irvine
DMC warehouses here to the states and set it up so that parts could
continue to be made available to DeLorean owners. Shortly after moving
these parts (186 containers from Dunmurry and 67 trailers from Irvine)
KAPAC was offered the opportunity to buy the parts. By my estimation, 90%
of the parts sold through the DeLorean suppliers we're all familiar with
have come from KAPAC.)
I flew into Cleveland late Friday night, where I was met by Mike
Substelny and quickly escorted to a nearby pub where his girlfriends
birthday celebration was in full swing. After some food and drink, we
arranged to leave for Columbus and the Chapter 23 bunch at 7:00am the
next day. We had breakfast with Chapter 23 (and various guests from New
Jersey, Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, Pennsylania and Vermont) and then
caravaned to KAPAC. More than 40 people attended and participated in this
event.
Now, I didn't really know what to expect when I walked in to KAPAC. I
consider myself relatively knowledgeable about the DeLorean, so I
discount a lot of the "doom and gloom" stories of parts running out.
Nevertheless, I was quite literally left speechless upon entering the
warehouse. Forty thousand square feet stacked from floor to ceiling with
nothing but DeLorean parts. With very damn few exceptions, they have it
all. KAPAC had a number of one-day specials for the Chapter 23 group laid
out for us, and a 30% disoucnt off of list for everything else. You know
how you really need a couple of days to really see Disneyworld? KAPAC is
the same way. It's like Santa's workshop without the elves. I spent all
day walking up and down aisles, sticking my hand in box after box, crate
after crate. Carpets, door panels, knee pads, consoles, engines,
transmissions, fuel filters, water pumps, instrument clusters (US and
Canadian), gauges, steering columns, window switches, window motors, lock
solenoids, relays, seat tracks, steering wheels, cargo nets, louvres,
literally hundreds of doors, hoods, quarter panels and RIGHT fenders.
Glass for every part of the car, interior trim, exterior trim and
emblems, fascias up the wazoo, mirros (both rear-view and side), horns,
labels, dashboards, tires, wheels, spare wheels, seats with leather and
without, boxes and bags of nuts and bolts, complete frames, headlight and
hazard switches, ductwork, fuel injection units, Craig radios, license
plate frames (still in the "Composite Technology Corporation" boxes they
were originally shipped in to the QAC's!), lots of brake and clutch
parts, some interesting automatic transmission shift levers with the
Renault logo on the top, combination ashtray and lighter assemblies from
the pre-production prototypes, even several crates of both black and grey
binnacles. I could go on and on and on.
In the words of great informercials, "But wait, there's more!", I was
fortunate enough to spend some time time talking with the owner, Marvin
Katz, and he graciously answered every question that I could think of,
and related to me a number of great anecdotes about the closing of the
factory and subsequent shipment of parts. He showed me one-half of an
aisle where, from floor to ceiling, was nothing but engineering drawing
for EVERY part used in the manufacture of the DeLorean. Mr. Katz stated
that when they run out of a part, and are unable to source it elsewhere,
if none of the other DeLroean parts/service companies will remanufacture
it, they will at least look into the costs to reproduce the item from
these drawings, based on the demand for the part. Mr. Katz also stated
that out of the 2800+ parts they inventory, some 1700 have NEVER been
ordered since they were shipped here. Amazing!
KAPAC has the molds used to make the fiberglass underbodies, but confirms
the story that the dies for the stainless lie at the bottom of Galway
Bay. I still stand by my recommendation that your crunched stainless be
repaired when possible, and replaced only when necessary, preferably from
a parts car. We need to prolong our original parts supply as long as
possible. I asked Mr. Katz why the shortage of left front fenders, and he
explained to me that many of the parts were already crated by the time
the got there, and in the case of the fenders, the crates were marked as
containing both left and right fenders, upon opening them in the states,
they were found to only contain right fenders. Also, he says, many of the
right fenders they have have the hole for the antenna in them.
KAPAC and Mr. Katz have embarked on another cool project. The have three
complete fiberglass underbodies left, and they are building three NEW
DeLoreans from the parts they have left. One of them was about 1/2 done
when we were there, and it looks cool. Mr. Katz says that he will
eventually sell these cars, too.
Another first from KAPAC is something Mike mentioned yesterday, KAPAC is
the first DeLorean parts company with a presence on the World Wide Web.
Their URL is "http://www.deloreanparts.com" and I encourage everyone to
visit there soon. Mr. Katz informed me that KAPAC will VERY SOON be
offering weekly specials that will knock our socks off! Congratulations
to KAPAC for being the first on the web - will this lead to other
supplilers showing up? Only time will tell...
Perhaps the greatest "find" of the day, in my opinion, was the discovery
of a long-rumored, but never adequately substantiated, interior part. We
all know the DeLorean came in two interior colors, black and gray. One
tan interior is also known to exist in one of the AMEX gold cars. Well,
in my rummaging among the boxes and crates, I discovered a burgundy
binnacle. Not quite the holy grail, but proof postive that the color was
more than just an idea. A little further on, I also discovered more
burgundy pieces, a center console, three door handles (where the strap is
attached on the early cars) a steering wheel center cap and a glove box
lid. One of the door handles was marked with a DMC (Dunmurry) sample tag,
dated April 2, 1982 and noted "Approved for Color Only". One has to
wonder how much longer it would've been before burgundy interior
DeLoreans would've been there on the production line...
Even with the 30% discount, I left KAPAC much poorer than I was when I
walked in that morning! As it was, I could've spent a couple thousand and
not gotten everything I wanted! I want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone
at KAPAC (Jane, Jackie, Jerry and Jess as well as Mr. and Mrs. Katz) for
allowing me to participate in their fun, fantastic and educational
tour/sale.
After the KAPAC shopping spree ended, we traveled to Radnor, Ohio for a
picnic and technical seminar at Bauerle Automotive. Dave had several
different DeLorean's in his shop up on lifts which gave us all a great
opportunity to poke around underneath the cars and observe different
areas that often require attnetion (ie, trailing arm bolts, oil sending
units, cooling fans, hoses, etc.) Also deserving of my thanks are Bob
Trunick, Mike Substelny and the rest of Chapter 23, for organizing this
great event with KAPAC and Bauerle Automotive. This is what the local
chapter concept is all about!
My trip to Ohio included a trip to the Crawford Automotive Museum to see
and photograph their stainless steel car exhibit, which includes the
FIRST DeLorean (BD000500) as well as a 1936 Ford and a 1966 Lincoln
Continental. Pictures will be posted to the web page in the next week or
so!
The rest of my trip was also eventful, but in a non-DeLorean related
manner - let's just say that thanks to my wonderful hosts, Mike Substelny
and Patti Otremsky - I had a helluva great time in Ohio! If anyone wants
more details, just email me!
James "Mikasa" Espey
------------------------------
From: aerostar@ccia.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:57:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mini-Review "The Ulitimate Classic Car Book"
"The Ultimate Classic Car Book" by Quentin Wilson, 1995
Dorling Kindersley Publishing, Inc.
95 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10016
ISBN 0-7894-0159-2
*This is a copyrighted book: any text quotes are done noted in
parentheses, as per industry standards in any book review*
This is a very nice quality coffee table book with plenty of full-color
photos. Ninety cars are featured, mostly in a two-page-per-car format.
Text is kept to a minimum, with a couple of paragraphs for each car
along with note of interest pointing to each car's features.
The introduction includes sections on "Why Classic?", "The Classic Car
Phenomenon" and "How To Buy a Classic Car". Of course, the DMC-12 is one
of the featured cars. In fact, it first shows up as a photo on page 16
within a paragraph titled "Buyer Beware". Although it is not mentioned
in the text of this particular section, I doubt this is just by chance.
Pages 88-89 gives us the DMC-12. Eight excellent color photos, including
one of a data plate (VIN#4579). "...the DMC was intended as a glimpse of
the future... today it is known as one of the car industry's greatest
failures, on a par with Ford's Edsel". The short introductory closes
with "After the initial novelty died down, word spread that DeLoreans
were dogs and sales completely evaporated".
There are several notes of interest pointed to the various photos. Two
of them addressed the gullwing doors; they leaked and did not open or
close properly, and "Held by a puny single gas strut, it was an act of
the purest optimism to expect them to work properly". The stainless
steel body panels were noted as "impossible to clean". Even the basic
styling was taken to task with the rear louvers and "cubed rear lights"
as "1970's styling".
Overview:
With some of the preambles, one would think this is a guide to buying an
interesting car, as the introductory section suggests. But this is more
of an overview of some of some great cars that would capture any car
enthusiasts dreams. It is by no means a *buyers guide*, but just a
collection of great cars. Many cars are listed.
Author Wilson seems to have a problem with the DMC-12. Wilson mentioned
the Edsel, in fact this is one of the cars that made it in his book:
"Today the Edsel is an emblem, a comforting reassurance for the little
man that mighty corporations can get it wrong". Wilson closes with his
comments on the Edsel that "...its comparative failure marks it as a
prized collector piece".
This book was not to kind to the DMC-12, to say the least. Perhaps the
readers of dmcnews could take a firsthand look at "The Ultimate Classic
Car Book" at their local bookstore or library, and send their comments
to the publisher.
Eric Friedebach aerostar@ccia.com
------------------------------
From: "Mr. THX"
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:03:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kapac Page
Hi all,
I checked out Kapac's parts page at http://www.deloreanparts.com.
It's rather anorexic right now and doesn't tell much about what they have.
Well, it says NOTHING about what they have. I emailed them asking if they
plan to have their inventory on the page. I really hope the page is
successful for them.
Apart from Kapac's part in the page is the layout of the page
itself. It's a rather poorly done page. I don't recall the company that
designed the page for them, but there are a lot of Web Page no-nos that
I've noticed. Most annoying is the white->black fade out. I've seen that
on other web pages and it bugs the hell out of me.
In any case, I'm more interested in getting information from the
page than looking at cool Web thingies. Anyone know if Kapac has an online
catalog anywhere?
Mike
------------------------------
From: carnage@pacbell.net (Kamran)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 19:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
How many stick shift DeLoreans were there made compared to
automatics. I'm buying a DeLorean within a few days and I want some info
on this. Also, would it be harder to sell a stick shift compared to an
automatic? Do people prefer the auto over the stick? I always thought
sinse it was a sports car, you'd probably want a stick. Is that true? Can
you guys give me the facts? I don't want to have a problem selling this
car, if I have to.
- -Falcon
------------------------------
From: carnage@pacbell.net (Kamran)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 19:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
How many stick shift DeLoreans were there made compared to
automatics. I'm buying a DeLorean within a few days and I want some info
on this. Also, would it be harder to sell a stick shift compared to an
automatic? Do people prefer the auto over the stick? I always thought
sinse it was a sports car, you'd probably want a stick. Is that true? Can
you guys give me the facts? I don't want to have a problem selling this
car, if I have to.
- -Falcon
------------------------------
From: Paul Parkanzky
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:44:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
At 07:35 PM 10/8/96 -0700, you wrote:
> How many stick shift DeLoreans were there made compared to
>automatics. I'm buying a DeLorean within a few days and I want some info
>on this. Also, would it be harder to sell a stick shift compared to an
>automatic? Do people prefer the auto over the stick? I always thought
>sinse it was a sports car, you'd probably want a stick. Is that true? Can
>you guys give me the facts? I don't want to have a problem selling this
>car, if I have to.
>
>-Falcon
>
>
Falcon,
I don't know the production numbers, but I much prefer the 5-speed.
To me a manual transmission gives you so much more feel for the car and the
road than an automatic. I know this is simply a matter of personal opinion,
but there's mine. Do you like to drive stick? Then buy a stick. If not,
then get the automatic. It'll still be your Delorean.
As far as trouble selling it, if you need to get rid of a clean car
for a reasonable price I don't think there will be a problem. As far as I
can tell, the demand (and the prices) of decent D's just keeps rising.
Just my tuppence.
**************************************
Paul Parkanzky KB8NPO
Lima Hall Rm 39
Ohio Northern University
e-mail: p-parkanzky@onu.edu
Phone: (419)-772-1665
**************************************
------------------------------
From: Roy Knyrim
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 22:18:20 -0500
Subject: Hood Cable
- -- [ From: Roy Knyrim * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
About two days ago I pulled the release lever for the front
storage area and snapped the cable.The cable went up inside the housing and
I have no way to pull on it to open the trunk.Does anyone know of a way to
get the hood open without cutting the housing to pull on the cable? Now
I'm really glad I have the gas flap in the hood.I don't know what I would do
if I couldn't get the trunk open to fill the tank.
Roy
------------------------------
From: "Marvin S. Sterling"
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 01:27:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Hood Cable
At 10:18 PM 10/8/96 -0500, you wrote:
>-- [ From: Roy Knyrim * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>
>
> About two days ago I pulled the release lever for the front
>storage area and snapped the cable.The cable went up inside the housing and
>I have no way to pull on it to open the trunk.Does anyone know of a way to
>get the hood open without cutting the housing to pull on the cable? Now
>I'm really glad I have the gas flap in the hood.I don't know what I would do
>if I couldn't get the trunk open to fill the tank.
>
> Roy
>
Call Rob Grady or D1 ... there was and hopefully still is a tool made just
for that purpose.
Good luck,
Marv Sterling
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 06:40:19 -0600
Subject: Re: 5-Speed Stick vs. Automatic
> How many stick shift DeLoreans were there made compared to
>automatics. I'm buying a DeLorean within a few days and I want some info
>on this. Also, would it be harder to sell a stick shift compared to an
>automatic? Do people prefer the auto over the stick? I always thought
>sinse it was a sports car, you'd probably want a stick. Is that true? Can
>you guys give me the facts? I don't want to have a problem selling this
>car, if I have to.
>
>-Falcon
THat's like asking which is best - Dim sum or pizza! When I purchased my
car 14 years ago, I lived in L.A., drove the freeways (parking lots) and
already had one car with a 5 speed so I purchased the automatic. Now that
I live where God does (the mountains of Colorado) I wish I had the 5 speed.
However, the automatic has treated me quite well. I did put a
transmission cooler on it right away. Small investment to protect an
expensive piece of machinery. This is especially important if you plan to
retain the original exhaust system since the exhaust manifold literally
lays on top of the transmission and provides it with heat it doesn't need.
BTW, don't try to drag VW's at stoplights with the automatic unless you
enjoy getting beat!!!
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
From: raddad@cmn.net
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 06:46:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Mini-Review "The Ulitimate Classic Car Book"
>"The Ultimate Classic Car Book" by Quentin Wilson, 1995
>Dorling Kindersley Publishing, Inc.
>95 Madison Avenue
>New York, NY 10016
>ISBN 0-7894-0159-2
>*This is a copyrighted book: any text quotes are done noted in
>parentheses, as per industry standards in any book review*
>
>This is a very nice quality coffee table book with plenty of full-color
>photos.
>This book was not to kind to the DMC-12, to say the least. Perhaps the
>readers of dmcnews could take a firsthand look at "The Ultimate Classic
>Car Book" at their local bookstore or library, and send their comments
>to the publisher.
>
>
>Eric Friedebach aerostar@ccia.com
Being a bookseller, I know the book and being a DeLorean owner I bought it.
Yes, it does knock the car but, the color shots are very good as is the
quality of the book. IF the DMC ever does become a genuine collectors
item, all material about it will become collectable too, including negative
reviews. Oh, BTW, I do not have any of the books to sell so this is not
a commercial.
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
From: Mike Substelny
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:45:57 -0400
Subject: Re: maintenance / 5 spd / trunk latch / DMC drawings
MAINTENANCE
Bruce said:
>Regular maintenance is more a labor of love than work. It's
>a car like all other cars but with a few more idiosyncrasies.
Absolutely, Bruce! My DeLorean requires TLC, but I would
expect to devote just as much time and money to a 1981
Corvette and more to a Porsche or a Jaguar.
FIVE SPEED / AUTOMATIC
Falcon asked:
>How many stick shift DeLoreans were there made
>compared to automatics. Do people prefer the auto
>over the stick?
I don't know how many sticks / automatics were made, but I
do know that Kapac has a sizeable inventory of brand new
automatic transmissions and engines. I saw them Saturday.
I did *not* see five speeds.
I love my five speed, but the world needs automatics, too. I
wish I had an automatic for my girlfriend. Based on what I
have gleaned from the DML, and one car I test drove, I think
the automatics have extra electronic headaches. This is a
risk you take with an auto DeLorean.
Of course bad shifting habits can really increase wear and
tear on the engine in five speed DeLoreans. There is a
different risk in buying any manual transmission car, since
the previous owner may have been one of those torque
maniacs who drives everywhere in first gear.
TRUNK RELEASE
Roy Knyrim said:
>About two days ago I pulled the release lever for the front
>storage area and snapped the cable.
At the Expo Rob Grady described an emergency procedure
for releasing the trunk lid with a rod. As I recall, you pull up
on the lid on the passenger side and slide a thin, rigid rod
into the compartment. Somehow you can reach the clasp
and release it. He made it sound reasonably easy.
KAPAC, DELOREAN DRAWINGS
James said:
>He (Marvin Katz) showed me one-half of an aisle where,
>from floor to ceiling, was nothing but engineering drawing
>for EVERY part used in the manufacture of the DeLorean.
The collection of engineering drawings was an awesome
sight! You could take those drawings today to various small
manufacturers and start cranking out DeLorean parts
tomorrow. Shoot, given enough gumption you could even
make whole DeLoreans . . .
James also said:
> let's just say that thanks to my wonderful hosts,
>Mike Substelny and Patti Otremsky - I had a helluva great
>time in Ohio!
The DOA Board meeting's loss was our gain, James! Patti
and I are lucky that fate allowed you to spend the extra time
with us. It was also great to meet Bruce Benson and all the
other people who came to Ohio from out-of-state. We hope
more of our DML friends come to Ohio sometime, perhaps
next year?
- -Mike Substelny
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V2 #184
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