DeLorean Mailing List - 10/5/98

Monday, October 5 1998         Volume 03 : Number 423

       In this issue:

        Re: DML: Re: Power windows - final episode

        DML: Re: 5 Speed transmission work

        DML: Re: Ignition Switch

        DML: Re: Power windows final episode (limit switches)


        DML: Kayo & Optima Battery

        DML: A stolen idea...

        DML: [admin] T-shirts and decals


        DML: New subscriber

        DML: Wreacked ones

        DML: windows zilla equivalent? 


        DML: New Formulation

        DML: Powersteering gone crunchy!

        DML: Optima batteries

        DML: RX7 Engine in DMC?

        DML: Left door and Rear Quarter F/S

        DML: Low Miles DMC F/S in Ohio


        DML: DeLorean at auction

        Re: DML: 81 Delorean Parts Car For Sale

        DML: Old JZD Press Release

        Re: DML: Kayo & Optima Battery

        DML: New Options?
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:01:01 -0400

From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe(AT)>

Subject: Re: DML: Re: Power windows - final episode

Unfortunately you have two original window regulators, these units have an

80% failure rate. The noise you hear we call ""ratcheting"" it is caused 


worn gears that drive the window lift cable up and down, some of the teeth

in the assembly are stripped preventing the window from going to the top.

These units are not repairable, new updated regulators are available from

all DeLorean part suppliers. Unless you are familiar with this service

procedure it should be left to an experienced DeLorean repair facility.

Joe/DeLorean Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:10:19 -0400

From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe(AT)>

Subject: DML: Re: 5 Speed transmission work

Larry has passed on good information and I thought I might add an

additional detail that may make the job easier. Most shifting problems are

due to one of two items, either the shifter is out of alignment or there 


a bent roll pin for the gear effected, once you have removed and

disassembled the trans replacing the pin is relatively simple.

Joe/DeLorean Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:24:53 -0400

From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe(AT)>

Subject: DML: Re: Ignition Switch

Our Back To The Future DeLorean has a remote control engine start, so I 


to eliminate the key start function. With some added wiring and a push

button switch placed wherever you desire you could by-pass the start

function of the key altogether. This could be accomplished for under $10.

If you need more info let me know.

BTW: it looks like you have done some good detective work on trying to

correct this problem, and as a side note this is the first time I have 


heard of a "D" with this problem.

Joe/DeLorean Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:06:27 -0400

From: "Gerald Ranada" <ranada(AT)>

Subject: DML: Re: Power windows final episode (limit switches)
>> There are no electrical limit switches for the DeLorean windows!

>> When the window reaches the top of its travel you need to take

>> your finger off of the button immediately.  Failure to do so will result

>> in wear and tear and eventually the sort of sound you have described.


>> - - Mike Substelny
I notice this problem (feature?) with the electrical windows within the

first week that I bought my Delorean.  My sister sat in my car and started

to play with the power windows and I almost dropped by jaw when I heard 


mechanical clicking on closing.  A couple of months later, my passenger

window seized and refused to operate at all.  I replaced the stock window

motor with the kit PJ Grady sells and window operation works like a charm.

The process is much faster, smoother and especially, no more mechanical

clicking on closing.  There is just a momentary electrical buzz to let you

know that the window is closed but nothing to suggest physical damage.  


project of mine is to rebuild the solenoids...
Gerald Ranada

VIN #4572
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 15:28:18 -0400

From: Marc A Levy <malevy(AT)>

There was never a response to this one, so I figured I would throw it

out again!
I personally see a need here for some modern shocks.  I am about to put

new springs in my DMC, and would love to also replace the shocks.  I

just don't feel right about buying a set of shocks that have been

sitting on a shelf for almost 20 years!  I also do not want to have new,

incorrect shocks.  Those are the only 2 choices that I see available

right now.

on 8/18/98 Aldo.Buono(AT) wrote:

>      I do not have personal knowledge of the Carrera shocks.  Has anyone

> on

>      the list installed them??????

on 8/18/98 raddad(AT) wrote:


> I believe that Specialty Automotive sold Carrera's for the D in the past.

> I assume they have also installed some.  Anyone else?


> Dick Ryan
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:59:04 -0700

From: Matthew Peak <mpeak(AT)>

Subject: DML: Kayo & Optima Battery
It's interesting that you knock the Interstate battery because both the 

Interstate and the Optima are made by the same company.  All of my auto 

shop teachers rave about the interstate battery and I personally have had 

one that lasted almost seven years!  The Interstate is the choice of 

replacement by Mercedes mechanics.  The main advantage the Optima has 


the Interstate is that is is a sealed battery.  I was going to buy the 

Interstate, but I would have been too nervous about the possible buildup 


gas in that little battery compartment so I went with the Optima.
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:43:54 -0400

From: Marc A Levy <malevy(AT)>

Subject: DML: A stolen idea...
A thread recently appeared on the SHOtimes mailing list about a "window

sticker" to identify SHOtimes members.
I think this would be a really good DML (DMCNEWS) item.  Placing

stickers on the windows is non-destructive (they can be removed with a

razor blade).  The sticker could fit on the rear quarter windows, and

advertise the DML.  A well designed 2X2 sticker in the rear window with

the address would not only let us identify each other,

but also give others the web address to get all of their Delorean

questions answered.
I stress that the design is important.  There are no too many things I

would do to change the look of my car.
This may be a good project to integrate with the tee shirt design. for

the DML.
Any opinions?
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:49:18 -0000

From: James Espey <espey(AT)>

Subject: DML: [admin] T-shirts and decals
Ohmigod, t-shirts, window stickers, quarterly 'zine, all we'll need is 

membership cards and dues and we can call this a club....
I will post the final entries for the t-shirt contest this weekend, and 

voting will begin Monday. I got wrapped up in some "end of the quarter" 

projects and got behind. Shirts are still expected to ready long before 

the holidays roll around...
I'm all for the window decals - anyone else?
James Espey

Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:41:42 -0700 (PDT)

From: DMC_12(AT) (Justin Friel)

I have heard somewhere that in one of the "National Geographc" issues,

that a DeLorean picture or some information is in there,  can someone

confirm this?  Thanx,

VIN# (give me a couple of years)
Visit my page for information on the DeLorean, the most "ethical" sports

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:04:07 -0700

From: Chuck Knight <cknight(AT)>

Subject: DML: New subscriber
Hello.  In keeping with netiquette, I suppose I should introduce 

myself.  My name is Chuck Knight, and obviously I love Deloreans.

I have ever since I saw one, for the first time, in the movies.

It's a very classic design.
Now, I don't have one yet.  This is actually one of the reasons

that I'm on this list...hopefully I will find one which I can

afford, which is actually in one piece.
And, a quick question.  (hopefully this won't start a "religious"

war)  Is it sacriledge to "modify" a dead Delorean, by converting

it to an electric vehicle?  I've heard of very good condition

bodies, with dead engines.  This would make one of the most striking

electric vehicles that I can imagine.
     -- Chuck Knight
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 03:06:24 +0000

From: chad knott <bto(AT)>

Subject: DML: Wreacked ones
There is suposedly 2 wreacked D's in a junkyard near Port Charlotte,

Florida and I was wondering if anybody knows more about it, posibly

where it is.


                                                     Chad Knott
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 03:55:01 -0400

From: Steve <dmc(AT)>

Subject: DML: windows zilla equivalent? 
On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Mike Substelny wrote:

> Andrew said:

>> I have an '81 DeLorean with a problem of both power windows

>> not stopping at the top when being raised.  They make this loud

>> "clicking" sound until the button is released.

> There are no electrical limit switches for the DeLorean windows!

> When the window reaches the top of its travel you need to take

> your finger off of the button immediately.  Failure to do so will result

> in wear and tear and eventually the sort of sound you have described.
It is interesting that this should come up.  I recently discussed this

problem with Rob Grady, and mentioned a device that he said was similar

to something he'd been thinking about making.  This device hooks up to

your power windows and enhances their operation by providing touch up/down

features as well as the ability to connect them to an alarm.  The

important feature though is that it senses when the window has reached

the top/bottom of it's travel by the change in current drawn by the motor.

When it senses this it removes power from the motor.  (Whether you still

have your finger on the switch or not.)
I plan on installing this device in my Delorean (assuming I can do so

without chopping up the wiring harness) when I get it back from PJ Grady

in a few weeks.  When I do I'll post to the list what the results are.

My delorean still has the original window lifts in it and this should

extend their life greatly.
This device BTW, is called Smart Windows II, made by car alarm 


Clifford Electronics.  I know that other manufactorers make similar

products, but I am not familliar with them or their operation.  The

Clifford module allows normal window operation when installed, does

not require an alarm, and will operate up to two windows.  (All we need

of course!)  You can find clifford at (800) CLIFFORD, or

(has non US phone numbers for those list members in Europe, etc)
I don't work for Clifford, or sell their products, I'm just a satisfied

customer.  If anyone on the list would like mre detail on how this works,

feel free to email me.
			-Steve <dmc(AT)>
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 02:36:37 -0700

From: "lseiler(AT)" <lseiler(AT)>

At 03:28 PM 10/2/98 -0400, you wrote:

>There was never a response to this one, so I figured I would throw it

>out again!


>I personally see a need here for some modern shocks.  I am about to put

>new springs in my DMC, and would love to also replace the shocks.  I

>just don't feel right about buying a set of shocks that have been

>sitting on a shelf for almost 20 years!  I also do not want to have new,

>incorrect shocks.  Those are the only 2 choices that I see available

>right now.

Dick a question?

Why do you say buy " new, incorrect shocks.", are you saying that there

are no identical shocks manufactured today that install into the D, or are

you saying that no modern shock made today has identical sects as the

original shocks.?
Hope you don't mind my asking!

Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 04:42:52 -0700

From: "lseiler(AT)" <lseiler(AT)>

Subject: DML: New Formulation
Hello all DML'ers
	It's about 4:30am But I just could not wait to post some good news.
If you are on the List of 100, all 670 of you then you know that the

release of the Delorean limited edition model kits was stalled due to a

material problem. The epoxy resin formula I was using would not cure

properly and made it impossible for me to make the final production dies

and molds for the various parts and "all Resin bodies".
Well the formulation has been dumped for an entirely new one that just

produced a perfect 1/24th scale Gull wing door with all the details in a

clear slightly almond tint. The surface detail is perfect, I will post a

picture early next week.
The important point is that the final work can now begin. 
As a point of interest the problem appears to be some chemical conflict

between the die materials and the resins. The initial jelling went fine 


then for some reason the resin touching the die would remain a liquid 


the main body cured and began to shrink, then eventually the remaining

liquid would jell and leave a lumpy and lace curtain surface which was 


the wrong size.
Much of this sort of thing can be controlled by the various components,

unfortunately there is no way to control both the formulation for the dies

and the epoxy, the base compounds as they come from the chemical supplier

are fixed.
I will as I posted above get some photos of both the failures and the new

properly formed parts up loaded some time early next week.

Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:41:32 +0200

From: jbdesign(AT)

Subject: DML: Powersteering gone crunchy!
I=B4ve got a major problem on my DeLorean..=20

Every time I turn the steeringwheel it is very hard to turn and it makes

this "Crunchy" sound.. i.e. Turn your car in packed snow..
I can=B4t help feeling like if the steeringwheel gets stuck somewhere?
Has anyone had these problems before? =20

And is there a way to diagnose an error on the powersteering?
Well.. this has left me very confused and I would really like to hear some

responses to this question of mine!
Thanks in advance!
/Henrik   VIN #2270
PS.  Joe / DeLorean services.. You are one helluva guy spending all that

time answering all these questions.. You and the rest of the helping ppl 


true angels in my eyes!  CHEERS!
- ----------------------------------------------------------

 DiscoTech D&H                    Phone: +46 431 411 055

 P.O Box: 1016                           +46 103 315 310

 S 262 21 Engelholm               Fax:   +46 431 410 435

 VAT no:  SE 969644-4646 01

- ----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:21:23 -0600 (MDT)

From: raddad(AT)

Subject: DML: Optima batteries
A recent post seemed to suggest that an Optima battery is nothing more 


a "sealed Interstate battery".  To dispel that notion and to let you know

why so many of us believe that it is the very best choice for a car with

the electrical idiosyncrasies that our cars possess, check out the

following web site
I don't have any financial connection with Optima.  I just strongly 


that our cars are very special.  Therefore, when I have to replace

something on mine, I try to get the very best replacement possible.  It 


cost a little more initially, but over the long haul, it ususally proves 


be less expensive and the piece of mind is priceless.
Dick Ryan
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 98 23:35:58 -0000

From: David Swingle <dswingle(AT)>

Subject: DML: RX7 Engine in DMC?
Is anyone on the list familar with this car? I'd sure like to know more!
This is from an ad in the current issue of Hemmings.
Dave Swingle

81 VIN 5429

DOA, DMC, DMC(Midwest)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 98 00:12:04 -0000

From: David Swingle <dswingle(AT)>

Subject: DML: Left door and Rear Quarter F/S
A friend of mine came upon the following for sale at a flea market in 

Wisconsin a week ago - 

Drivers side door and rear quarter panel, believed new (unused). Asking 

$1000 for both. Email me directly for contact information.
Dave Swingle

81 VIN 5429

DOA, DMC, DMC(Midwest)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 98 00:12:12 -0000

From: David Swingle <dswingle(AT)>

Subject: DML: Low Miles DMC F/S in Ohio
I was "vacationing" at the Fall Carlisle (PA) car show this weekend. A 

man came up to me  (I was wearing a DMC sweatshirt) and indicated that he 

had a nice car for sale. 
81,  Automatic, VIN in the 2600 range, located in Warren Ohio. Email me 

directly if you are interested and I'll provide contact information. Car 

has 1100 miles, completely unmodified original car, original owner, 

always in heated indoor storage. Asking $18,500, won't take a lowball 

bid. Has been driven within the last month. Originally purchased as 

"investment", obviously not a good one over a 17-year period.
Dave Swingle

81 VIN 5429

DOA, DMC, DMC(Midwest)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:37:09 +0000

From: Albert Siegel <siegel(AT)>

How many DeLoreans were built with auto trans?  someone told me 600 in

total. I think that cant be.  any help would be great!
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:00:37 -0400 (EDT)

From: Sandro John Di Giacomo <sandro(AT)UDel.Edu>

Subject: DML: DeLorean at auction
On Saturday, Oct. 3rd I went to the Dutchland Collector Auto Auction in

Strasburg, PA, where, among all the 'Vettes and Stingrays and T-birds,

they had an '81 DMC (they also had a 1975 Bricklin SV-1, but those silly

doors wouldn't open all the way). :)
Anyhoo, here's the lowdown on the D:

Build date: 10/81

Serial: 04423

5spd, grey interior

no gas flap, but did have hood creases

19,844 miles on stock speedo
this is all the stuff wrong with it:

all kinds of wires dangling by pedals, esp. clutch

rear view mirror detached, sitting in glovebox

slightly sagging headliner

front and rear "dome" lights worked sporadically

small rip in shifter boot

fuel gauge pointing straight up vertically...won't move

parking brake won't disengage unless you take off the rubber cover

center console lights on constantly

instrument cluster lights not working

inside part of door coming loose

Craig stereo...would not turn on

electric side view mirrors moved erratically with controls

driver side window won't move, passenger side has very loud motor

front part of driver door seems to stick when you try to open it

trunk release lever access to trunk 

cracking dash

front+rear facia painted grey

rear facia looks like it is not the original, since it interferes with

   the closing and latching of the engine cover and louvres (neither one

   will latch)

louvres need new struts

louvres cracked

needs new passenger door seal

no antenna...I guess it had one of those windshield antennas?

now, I don't know much about car engines, but I'll try my best to explain

   this: the hose that runs from the crankcase (I think) to the air intake

   manifold (?) was disconnected (this is probably totally's

   that hose that returns hot air to keep the engine temp up)
It wasn't a bad car, but it was obvious that the owner(s) performed the

smallest amount of maintenance possible to keep the car running, but

didn't really take care of anything that was broken or malfunctioning, as

long as it fired up when they turned the key.
It was set to go on the block the next day, so I asked someone to email me

the price at which it sells...I'll keep everyone posted.
While I was sitting in it, writing stuff down, two women (on two separate

occasions) came up to me and told me that I looked very good in the D.

Either it's some sort of sign, or the owner was paying the two women to

say it.  :)

Sandro J. Di Giacomo
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:21:07 EDT

From: Torbeck911(AT)

Subject: Re: DML: 81 Delorean Parts Car For Sale
william prince said he has a dmc parts car for sale if you still do 


please contact me asap


           ryan torbeck
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:06:22 -0400

From: Wade Shapiro <shapiro3(AT)>

Subject: DML: Old JZD Press Release
Tonight I was looking at the Pontiac Historical Services web page, and

they offer some samples of a historical packet you can buy for your

classic Pontiac. Anyway, one of the samples was for the 1969 Judge, and

included in the packet is a press release that states that John Z.

DeLorean, one of General Motors' vice-presidents announced the price of

the new model.
To see the release for yourself, go to this site:
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:34:31 EDT

From: KayoOng(AT)

Subject: Re: DML: Kayo & Optima Battery
I am not sure of the manufacture of the Interstate Batteries "presently." 


do know that Optima Batteries Inc. is in Aurora, Colorado, "presently."  


NOT know that the Interstate and Optima are manufactured by the SAME

manufacture as you are telling me.  Or they are a subdivision of each 


The Optima Batteries as they claim is engineered or back up by the Gylling

Group of Scandinavia--established 1912.  The Optima Batteries is 


Technology a bit different from the Interstate Batteries which is

"conventional" in design. 

Check their website:

If the Interstate Batteries have change their technology, I would like to 


as info.
Honestly, I can care less as long as the product works and it stand up to 


promises as a product and its policies in case of a problem.  As any 


goes...a product must stand out on its own!  The Optima so far has done 


The Optima was recommended to me by several different owners of other 


as well as other DeLorean owners.
The case here is that Interstate is not an Optima.  I don't think either

Interstate will honor the Optima warranty program and vice versa besides 


warranties of the two company are not the same???

Matt, try to understand my response was to a previous DMLer who posted his

"experiences" in the "usage" of the Interstate Battery and the "policies" 


went along with it.  He was complaining about the Interstate Battery and 


"run around" he got.  

He also was asking questions about a better battery.  I was just relating 


the problems and experiences that I had when I sold the Interstate Battery

line.  I do know that when I used to sell the Interstate batteries during 


early 1980s they were a problem (just about the time the DMC was being

produced and sold).  My customer would be returning the Interstate 


within the warranty program and they were becoming a pain to be dealt 

with it

after taken the line in.  The sales verses the returns was a burden.  This

told the story the realistic figures in batteries sales.  I also got the 


around" with the sales rep with the defectives when returning for credit 


replacement.  (This was also true with another line of batteries which I

sold.)  I also had Interstate Batteries in several of our company's fleet

vehicles.......lets not get into it any further..........   
If you would like to say that the Interstate and Optima are on the same 


I don't think so.  They are different in the construction, the price or 

in the

usage where it counts!  If you would like to defend the Interstate 


please do so.  In all fairness, Optima are quite expensive over the

Interstate.  It is like comparing fillet minion to flank stake.  

Different in

price, different in taste.  Same, but not the same.  Just like the two 

cuts of

beef, even if they are from the same carcass.  They are different all 


As far as the Interstate Batteries goes, IMHO they don't stand up against 




proof that the Interstate Batteries "can do," please show me the proof 

and I

will purchase them and replace the Optimas and other batteries in vehicles

that I now have.  
In business and competition we welcome newer and better technology in 


and the services that it offers.  Batteries like computers and other 


are also moving fast into the future.  When it comes to batteries or 


else, we should not be stuck "BACK IN THE FUTURE" with the failures as a

product or in their policies.
With many of us at times, price is not the object.  Getting stuck is.  


the run around with the product's warranty can make anyone with a "bad 

day" to

become a terrible day or "nightmare."  This was not to single out 


Batteries or neither do I represent Optima Batteries.  No grips no hypes, 


responses to the postings.
Kayo Ong


Lic 9D NY
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:28:29 -0700

From: "lseiler(AT)" <lseiler(AT)>

Subject: DML: New Options?
At 04:42 AM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote:

>Hello all DML'ers


 This is an addition to the formulation post.
It appears that the new formulation will also allow pigmentation. This

being the case, It's my intention when the time comes, I will offer to all

pre paid reservations holders the option of black or gray interiors. All

others will be a translucent amber color. (this will be some interior 


and the doors, louver, engine CVR, hood.
more detailed info will be posted on the Limited edition bulletin board

later this week.

81 DMC-12
End of dmcnews-digest V3 #423

 Postings to the DELOREAN MAILING LIST are the opinions of the author and

 not necessarily those of the list moderator (James Espey) or his


 Service Provider(s). The list moderator makes every effort to screen out

 false, misleading, and negative postings, but it is up to you, the


 of the DELOREAN MAILING LIST, to realize that nothing should be taken as

 actual fact without research and investigation of your own.
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