Tuesday, October 20 1998 Volume 03 : Number 430
In this issue:
DML: New Engines and New Frames (is Byran Pearce out there?)
DML: DeLorean fires
DML: DeLorean Events
DML: DeLorean accident (updated)
DML: Re: New Engines and New Frames (is Byran Pearce out there?)
DML: Christmas Cards
DML: DeLorean Poster-Fullsize
Re: DML: New owner
Re: DML: New owner
DML: DMC Poster (WAS: DMC Crash worthiness)
Re: DML: Re: Speaker Boxes
DML: Temp, Scratches, & Parade (was "New Owner")
DML: Re: leaking fuel lines?
Re: DML: transmission change
Re: DML: New owner
DML: DMC Crashworthiness -- and safety!
Re: DML: Interested in the DMC 12
Re: DML: New owner
DML: Re: New owner
DML: Sighting - N of Toronto
Re: DML: transmission change
DML: Re: transmission change
DML: Re: New owner
DML: My torsion bar spontaniously tweaked.
DML: New Orleans Owners
Re: DML: Interested in the DMC 12
[long] Re: DML: DMC Crash worthiness
Re: DML: DeLorean accident (updated)
Re: DML: Re: Speaker Boxes
DML: Re: The DeLorean Communication Center
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:15:03 -0700 From: Eric Altendorf <altevan@california.com> Subject: DML: New Engines and New Frames (is Byran Pearce out there?)
Two recent messages caught my attention. The first was about the possibility of replacing the DeLorean's engine with an approximate equivalent with seemingly greater HP. Remember that the DeLorean's 130 HP is SAE net HP. It's measured at the wheel, after the power has been transmitted through the entire drivetrain. The drivetrain saps some of the power. I don't know the numbers myself, but I'd expect the engine on a dyno by itself could generate at least 150HP, maybe 170. If you drop in a 160HP engine, you'll probably still get the same 130HP at the wheels. :-)
The second was about replacement frames. First, I was under the impression that DMC Houston still had original frames. Also, for a while, there was a guy named Bryan Pearce who was supposedly building stainless steel replacement frames -- at a modest $8,000 / pop. I went searching for his web page again last week, but couldn't find it. Has he "gone under"? It supposedly was stiffer than the original, had improved front crush members, and weighed 30lbs less. Not bad...
- -e.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:25:17 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: DeLorean fires
A longtime DeLorean mechanic (and recent subcriber to the DML) wrote an article for the next 'zine regarding DeLorean engine fires. Without going into too much detail here, the fires did originate from the fuel lines, though not the ones in the vicinity of the fuel tank. If the author wants to chime in before publication, he's invited to do so, otherwise look for it in the next issue of the 'zine.
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:05:42 -0700 From: Hank Breer <hbreer@ix.netcom.com> Subject: DML: DeLorean Events
Hi All,
Mimi and I just returned from a DeLorean event organized by James Cooper of the Northern California DeLorean Club (NCDC). Breakfast at Dennys, guided tour through the Blackhawk Automotive Museum, Lunch at a local restaurant.
Due to James' good planning, the museum allowed us to park on the circular walkway in front of the musuem where our 9 cars drue a continual stream of admirers. Unfortunately, the museum had just shipped their DeLorean (the #2 prototype James Espey and I saw at the Barrett-Jackson auction last January) out to another show, but they did give us xerox copies of the display plaque.
Coming from Southern California, we thought we would have driven the greatest distance, but Dick Ryan (RadDad) drove over from Colorado and beat us by 1,000 miles. Our thanks to the NCDC for allowing us to join them.
For any of you who will be in the Palm Springs area on Saturday evening, December 5th, you are invited to join the Southern California DeLorean Owners Club (SCDOC) at the Festival of Lights parade. This will be our 3rd year in the parade and it is an unusual sight. Each car is decorated with at least 400 miniature white Xmas lights. We will have dinner afterward in a local restaurant.
This is open to anyone with a DeLorean, affiliated with a club or not. Or just come and help decorate the cars and schmooz with the rest of us. For more info: Phone: (626) 798-6279 Fax: (626) 798-9764 Email: mailto:hbreer@ix.netcom.com
Hank Breer
- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:42:53 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: DeLorean accident (updated)
Things are going well, albeit slow IMO, with the repairs to my DeLorean. To briefly recap, my DeLorean was hit on the passenger side by a Mazda pickup truck. I was driving thru a parking lot, and the Mazda backed out of a parking space into the door and front fender of my car.
http://www.dmcnews.com/dmc1.jpg http://www.dmcnews.com/dmc2.jpg http://www.dmcnews.com/dmc3.jpg http://www.dmcnews.com/dmc4.jpg
I called the other guys insurance company (Civil Service Employees Insurance, apparently related to or underwritten by Metropolitan Life). The adjuster asked if I knew where I wanted the wrok done and I told them "DeLorean Motor Company". She paused and said, "Are they still around?" and I explained who they were and where they are located. She then asked if I could take it to them for an estimate. I replied that I was in Phoenix and repeated that they were in Houston. She paused again, and said, "Can I put you on hold for a minute?" She eventually came back and had arranged for an independent appraiser to come out to my home and assess the damage for them.
The appraiser guy came out last Wednesday morning and looked at the car "Looks like you need a new door and fender!" He took some pictures and asked if I had any idea where parts could be obtained. I said I thought I knew a place in Texas that could supply the parts and do the work. I gave him DMC's phone number and he left.
This morning I had a message from the others guys insurance saying that they had received an estimate from DMC for $5426.21 and were prepared to send out a check to me immediately. I had a copy of the estimate already in hand and that amount did not include shipping to/from Houston. That alone will probably run about another $1,000. Not sure if I am entitled to a rental car, either, but DMC estimates about two months to complete if there is not hidden damage (fiberglass, suspension, inner door mechanisms, etc.).
More as it happens...
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:06:49 -0700 From: "Dave Price" <davep2@clipper.net> Subject: DML: Re: New Engines and New Frames (is Byran Pearce out there?)
>The second was about replacement frames. First, I was under the >impression that DMC Houston still had original frames. Also, for a >while, there was a guy named Bryan Pearce who was supposedly building >stainless steel replacement frames -- at a modest $8,000 / pop. I went >searching for his web page again last week, but couldn't find it. Has >he "gone under"? It supposedly was stiffer than the original, had >improved front crush members, and weighed 30lbs less. Not bad... > They're still around (in fact Mr. Pearce just posted recently to the DML). Go to www.pearce-design.com
- - Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:53:32 -0400 From: "Watkins Family watbmv@megalink.net" <watbmv@megalink.net> Subject: DML: Christmas Cards
I know James is probably very busy with moderator duties and all SO........could someone tell me how to order a set of the Christmas Card?
I feel fortunate that this forum exists for DMC owners/fans, especially those of us who live in the boonies of Maine and can't find someone who knows how to work on my car!! I feel buying some cards is well worth the information and help I have received from all of you!
Thanks
Tom Watkins #5732
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:45:35 -0500 From: scottmueller@zebra.net (Scott Mueller) Subject: DML: DeLorean Poster-Fullsize
With all the new DeLorean products being made, i wanted to know what > all of you would > think of a full sized DeLorean poster, for all you owners, and soon to be > owners. I always > thought a 15'x4' poster would look nice in my house. I've been thinking > of looking for a > good publishing company that can make posters, and getting a good shot of > a DeLorean. Any > thoughts? phoenixl@ix.netcom.com
I would be interested in a color poster. Any idea what the cost would be.
James Espey - What would your guess be for cost and number required to be economical?
Scott Mueller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:45:13 -0500 From: scottmueller@zebra.net (Scott Mueller) Subject: Re: DML: New owner
eurojet@juno.com wrote:
just let it run while he figured out where to connect what > wire where. I was watching the temp guage slowly go up into the red and > quickly went over and turned off the engine.
I also want to show the car in a parade coming up but am afraid > of overheating in the stop and go procession. Fil.
The car should not overheat. Have you bleed the cooling system. Do the fans come on at the proper temperature. Do you have antifreeze in the system. You better check all of these things before you ruin the engine.
Duke has a bleeding procedure on his web page
( http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8952/delorean.html )
and the back issues have many discussions about overheating.
Scott Mueller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:04:50 -0700 From: "lseiler@radiance.com" <lseiler@radiance.com> Subject: Re: DML: New owner
At 09:33 PM 10/19/98 EDT, you wrote: >First of all, sorry if I insulted any of you by comparing my Fiero <Snip........
Sense I was one of the guys that reacted to your F...post It's only fair to offer a bit of help.
3M pads..etc.,
The correct item is called "Blending Hand Pad" Scotch-Brite #7446 this pad generally cost $1.79 at any well stocked Hardware store. If you have any problems finding it you can get information on your local distributor from 3M Abrasive Systems Division St. Paul, MN 55144-1000
You should also get stainless cleaner, there are two brands generally favored by most DeLorean owners:
1. 3M Stainless Steel Cleaner & Polish #34-7032-2354-4
Commercial Care Division product. Comes in 21 oz spray can
or
2. DuBois USA Super Hi-lite Stainless Steel Cleaner & polish comes in 18 oz spray can.Customer service 1-800-543-4906
To use this stuff:
The Blending pads come in 6X9 inch by half inch thick pads. The fibers seam very course but are correct.
You will need a Blending block, made from any wood. It should be 5 3/4X8 3/4X2" a cut from any 2X6 is perfect.
To use start by spraying either cleaner on to the stainless surface and work in using an old towel or clean cloth, rub in the same direction as the brush pattern of the panel ONLY! do not rub cross grain or in circles. Once you have fully covered the area to be blended (should be wet with polish) place the blending pad onto the stainless surface, place the block on top of the pad so that pad extends evenly on all sides of the blending block, now pressing against the stainless push the blending pad in the same direction as the brush pattern, try to keep the stroke in line with the factory brush pattern. when you complete the first stroke completed pick up the pad and block, DO NOT PULL THE PAD BACK THE WAY IT CAME, AND DO NOT MOVE PAD AGAINST THE GRAIN TO START A RETURN STROKE! go back to your starting point place the pad on to the surface and repeat the process. As you work you will see a black build up of cleaner, this is normal, continue working and adding cleaner as you work. I suggest no more than half a panel at a time. When you have completed a section, stop, wash out the blending pad with worm soapy water then clear cool water, shake dry and start next panel. Use more cleaner to remove the ugly black streaks that form during blending. At this point you have a choice of leaving a very thin film of cleaner on the stainless surface or having the slightly briter "Dry" look. For the dry Look just wash the DeLorean and then dry it completely. You can also "Dry" blend if you like by doing the Blending with out the cleaner. The problem with this approach is that dry blending leaves a fine black powder on the stainless that comes off on everything. Many DeLorean users like to use "Windex" window cleaner to keep their DeLoreans bright and fingerprint free.
Over heating: This is almost always due to air in the coolant system, The best way to deal with this is to have the system flushed, filled with coolant (not water) and purged of air. This process is a bit tricky, Joe will likely jump in and suggest how you can do this.
Wings-Up, Generally it should be OK to drive at 5MPH with the doors open. The only caveat is that a pot hole could cause a door to suddenly drop and maybe catch a finger across the door seal thunk a head??
I am confident you will get other helpful hints from other DML'ers
Lee
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:03:41 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: DML: DMC Poster (WAS: DMC Crash worthiness)
Take a look at http://www.dmcnews.com/misc/poster.html
Mostafa Sayed wrote:
> With all the new DeLorean products being made, i wanted to know what > all of you would > think of a full sized DeLorean poster, for all you owners, and soon to be > owners. I always > thought a 15'x4' poster would look nice in my house. I've been thinking > of looking for a > good publishing company that can make posters, and getting a good shot of > a DeLorean. Any > thoughts? phoenixl@ix.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:52:05 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: Re: Speaker Boxes
Based on the picture you have, I do not see how the seats can go back all the way.
On my car, if the seats are pushed back as far as they can go, and the back is reclined as far as it can go, the seat back follows the same angle as the cargo net.
The box you have does not follow the angle of the cargo net, so I am guessing the seat adjustment range is limited. This is why my requirements were that the box should fit with the cargo net over it.
I guess my search will continue, or I will have to go pay some bux to have a custom box built. My attempt at building a box has been, well... Poor! I am no carpenter!
Duke wrote: > > I can make you a box perfect for a set of 10's or 12's. It will fit > perfectly in the storage space but you won't be able to use the cargo net. > You can see pics of mine at my website. I've added new equipment and will > update the pics on the stereo equipment Wednesday. Email me if you're > interested. > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8952/picpage4.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:02:02 -0400 From: Mike Substelny <SUBSTEM@cesmtp.ccf.org> Subject: DML: Temp, Scratches, & Parade (was "New Owner")
Fil took his car in for an emissions check:
> I was watching the temp guage slowly go up into the red and > quickly went over and turned off the engine.
This should not happen. If your temp guage really gets into the red then you have a problem with your cooling fans or radiator. Do your cooling fans come on normally?
Note that it is normal to warm a car up to its highest normal operating temperature before conducting an emissions test. The catalytic converter is most efficient when it is very, very hot.
> The first mechanics left some scratches near the right rear > window where they had dragged their hoses across the finish. > I'm new at this stuff and am afraid to make them worse. Do I really > use a 3M pad for these?
Honest to goodness, you can take out minor scratches from the stainless finish with straight, long strokes from a Scotchbright pad. It really works.
> I also want to show the car in a parade coming up but am afraid > of overheating in the stop and go procession.
If your car has a cooling problem then driving in a parade WILL overheat your engine, and probably cause damage! If the fans have an electrical problem then get that fixed pronto. If the fans are working normally and the car still overheats, then your radiator is probably clogged.
> Last question: is it bad to drive in a parade with the doors open? > 5 mph tops...
The idea of driving in a parade with "doors up" can make you nervous at first, but fortunately for you hundreds of us have tried it before you and lived to tell the tale. If the parade officials don't mind then your car probably won't mind either. The decision is up to you; don't blame me if some Shriner clown whacks you on the head with a lollypop, or if you whack the clown's head with your door! Doors in good condition should be tough enough to handle 5 mph driving, but you have to consider the hazard they pose to others.
Doors up or doors down, the DeLorean is always a crowd pleaser.
- - Mike Substelny
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:11:54 -0400 From: Mike Griese <magriese@us.ibm.com> Subject: DML: Re: leaking fuel lines?
Gerald
I have had a problem with leaking banjo clips at the fuel injectors. This has led to a small blaze in the engine compartment while I was driving the car. Fortunately I noticed it almost as soon as it started and was able to put it out without damage to the car.
By the way, diet Dr Pepper is a pretty good flame retardant.
Michael A. Griese IBM Storage Systems Division Rochester, MN 55901 Internet: magriese@us.ibm.com voice: (507)253-1853 fax: (507)253-2880
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:07:35 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy@dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: transmission change
The Automatic and Manual frames are different.
Mostafa Sayed wrote: > > Has anyone here ever tried changing their transmission from automatic to > manual? is it possible and how much did it cost? > > Later, > Mostafa > > DMC VIN#: Soon enough...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:55:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Wilson <fluffy@snurgle.org> Subject: Re: DML: New owner
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 eurojet@juno.com wrote:
> First of all, sorry if I insulted any of you by comparing my Fiero to my > DeLorean. I promise NEVER to use the "F" word again on the DML.
Heh, doesn't upset me. I actually LIKE the Fiero (not for the same reasons as the DeLorean, though).
> advise. I also want to show the car in a parade coming up but am afraid > of overheating in the stop and go procession. The weather is cool now but
There's a brass radiator available which is much better than the one that comes stock, and they don't cost too much either. Supposedly they are not too hard to install either. Probably don't have time to get one before your parade, but...
> the car in the parade! Any advice? Last question: is it bad to drive in a > parade with the doors open? 5 mph tops...Thanks a lot. Fil.
No. I don't think that the car looks best with the doors open - although they certainly are unique. The torsion bars don't care where the doors are as long as they stay in one place. The real problem is that the DeLorean frame is flexible and depends on the doors as structural members. Therefore you must be very careful when you drive with the doors up to go very slowly and not hit any bumps. Be sure your gas struts are in good shape before attempting this, too, or your doors might flap up and down. This won't do them any good either. :}
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:34:18 -0700 From: Eric Altendorf <altevan@california.com> Subject: DML: DMC Crashworthiness -- and safety!
At the risk of wearing this issue thin, I would like to make an argument for the meaningfulness of the DeLorean crash test video, and at the end make a point about the safety of your cargo net...
First, there is no difference between a 120mph impact against a stationary object and a head-on impact between two objects traveling at 60mph. The velocity difference is the same. The relative motion of the ground underneath the objects is irrelevant. Remember the laws of relativity.
Second, a concrete wall undergoes almost no change in state when impacted; therefore it has absorbed almost no energy. Remember, energy absorbed will equal work done, and work done equals force times distance. If the wall doesn't move, no work has been done on it, and thus no energy has been absorbed. Certainly, some energy will have gone into chipping bits of concrete off, generating a loud crash sound, and heating up the wall a negligable amount. However, by and large, it is the car that will absorb the energy of the impact.
An impact against a concrete wall is effectively the same as an impact against a large truck. Large trucks do not have any energy absorbtion, and with a mass of around 10 times that of a car, they are almost as immovable as a concrete wall. So a 60mph crash against a concrete wall is about equivalent to a 30mph head-on crash against a large truck. In my opinion, this is a very fair and reasonable test.
An excellent book on the physics and mechanics of car collisions and automobile design is *When It Comes to the Crunch -- The Mechanics of Car Collisions", by Noel W. Murray, Emeritus Professor of Structural Engineering at Monash University in Australia, copyright 1994.
Incidentally, there is also an interesting chapter in the book about "loose objects in automobiles". Make sure your cargo net is strong enough to hold in whatever you put in it when subjected to the 50 or 60 g's you may experience in a head-on collision! It may save your life.
- -e.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:37:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Wilson <fluffy@snurgle.org> Subject: Re: DML: Interested in the DMC 12
I would reply personally, but the email address is missing.
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 dmcnews@world.std.com wrote:
> around for information on them. I am 15 and I liked them a lot when I > was younger, before I knew anything about cars, and of course, It was in > "Back to the Future" that I first saw one. Recently I have seen the > movie again and I also saw one in "The Wedding Singer". From what I have
There are a lot of younger DeLorean enthusiasts. Internet demographics as a whole aside, I bet half the members of the list are under 30 and a not insignificant portion are under 20.
> gathered, they go for about $16,000 to $20,000, depending on their > condition. I really would like to get a "D" with a few problems and fix > it up. I really like how they have features of world class automobiles
You're in for good news - DeLoreans that need work often go for well under $15K and sometimes as little as $10K. $16 to $20K will get you a ready-to-go DeLorean in good condition.
> main questions are: A: Can a Delorean be painted, and B: Are there any > people who know of Deloreans for sale in the Ohio area or anyone who can > provide me with further information on the car.
Yes, they can. You have to specially treat the stainless or the paint will fall off, but there are many painted DeLoreans out there. Be warned, though; a properly painted DeLorean is not easy to get the paint off of. If you're going to paint, I think that black is the best color for the car, but red is quite popular also. It was going to be a dealer option in '84. But I personally wouldn't paint one - I think the stainless exterior is one of the best aspects of the car.
Stay on the list or read the archives - you will be deluged with information on the car. :}
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:09:22 EDT From: CBL302@aol.com Subject: Re: DML: New owner
Phil,
For a while,I used to drive my Delorean with a black interior,(not my present"D") with the drivers door open,because the air conditioner wasn't working,but only on regular street roads,and below 40mph,and I never drove with the passenger door open,I suppose at low speeds,you could have both doors open,but watch out that you don't hit anything with the passenger door along the parade route.
Claude Vin#00570
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:42:15 -0500 From: "Duke" <at88mph@mobis.com> Subject: DML: Re: New owner
Ok....
Trust me, you DON'T want to get in a parade with the D overheating!!!! Could you give me some more info on your overheating problem. Maybe we can solve the problem before the parade so you don't have to worry about it at all. As far as opening the doors, go for it!!! 5 mph won't hurt anything.
Hope this helps,
Duke www.geocities.com/motorcity/8952/delorean.html
- -----Original Message----- >From: eurojet@juno.com <eurojet@juno.com> >To: dmcnews-digest@world.std.com <dmcnews-digest@world.std.com> >Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 2:22 AM >Subject: DML: New owner > > > I also want to show the car in a parade coming up but am afraid >of overheating in the stop and go procession. The weather is cool now but >I'll still be nervous. I don't want the embarassment of having to push >the car in the parade! Any advice? Last question: is it bad to drive in a >parade with the doors open? 5 mph tops...Thanks a lot. Fil.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 98 14:18:05 -0400 From: "Rob Corkum Hrdc-drhc" <rob.corkum@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca> Subject: DML: Sighting - N of Toronto
Hello!
Had my D out for the first time in a while and saw another pass me while visiting a friend out of town. Are you on this list?
You were westbound on Hwy 9 at the 400 at 4pm Sunday the 18th. We were both moving fast enough in the opposite direction for me not to get your licence plate. 8)
//Rob//
DMC vin 1723 Stealth R/T TT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:20:50 EDT From: CBL302@aol.com Subject: Re: DML: transmission change
Mostafa,
DON'T DO IT! Because unless you can make your own brackets and plates,for the shifter,and put in the slave cylinder and third pedal,OR change the frame,(the auto and standard shift frames are different where the shifter bolts up)it is just cheaper and easier to just buy a standard shift Delorean.
Claude Vin#00570
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:10:00 -0400 From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: DML: Re: transmission change
$$$$; Yes, very labor intensive and expensive. Changing from an auto to manual requires changing the following: Bellhousing, flywheel, chassis transmission mounts which requires welding and cutting, all shift linkage, replacement of the brake and clutch pedal assembly, installation of all clutch hydraulics, and electrical modifications. Price tag including the price of the trans. around $8,000. DMC Joe / DeLorean Services - ---------- > > Has anyone here ever tried changing their transmission from automatic to > manual? is it possible and how much did it cost? > > Later, > Mostafa > > DMC VIN#: Soon enough...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:57:28 -0400 From: "DMC Joe" <DMCJOE@worldnet.att.net> Subject: DML: Re: New owner
I will let some of our other list members answer most of your questions I will, however, address your over heating problem. When the DeLorean cooling system is operating as designed it should never over heat even under the severest conditions. The two most common problems are cooling fan electrical problems or trapped air in the coolant pipes. You said in your message that the car was idling for a while and the temperature gauge "went into the red". Try this easy test. Let the engine idle and watch the temperature gauge. If it slowly rises and goes past the 220 mark rev the engine several times and watch the gauge. If the temperature falls quickly shortly after revving the engine your problem is trapped air. While doing these test listen for operation of the cooling fans, they should turn on before the temperature gauge gets to 220. DMC Joe / DeLorean Services
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:54:44 -0700 From: "Dave Price" <davep2@clipper.net> Subject: DML: My torsion bar spontaniously tweaked.
A few days ago I was in the garage with my DeLorean, busy at my workbench, and I heard a loud bang that sounded like someone had thrown a large rock at my garage door. I looked around the garage, looked outside... I didn't see anything that had fallen or been thrown, so I just ignored it, and kept doing what I was doing..
Well, today I tried to open my driver's side door, and it wouldn't budge. So I figured my door lock solenoids were acting up again.. I opened the passenger side door and unplugged the door lock module, re-unlocked the driver's side door, and again to open it. It still was stuck closed.. although I did feel it give sightly. So I thought it might have been hung up on the door lock bolts... I grabbed the bottom of the door and gave it a good heave-ho, and it opened up... Then I looked around at the door, and I saw that the torsion bar was broken right at the hinge of the door towards the rear of the car. That was what the loud bang was earlier this week.
Does anyone know what could have caused this to happen? The car was just sitting there undisturbed with the doors closed. I've never heard of this happening before, is it common, or am I just unlucky? It would probably cause some serious damage if the t-bars were to give out while the door was open. Man, I am not looking forward to fixing this.. not only are they $350 each, the process to replace/adjust sounds like it requires an expert. Damn, just when (almost) everything was working....
- - Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:45:45 -0500 From: Stephen R <StephenR@net-2000.net> Subject: DML: New Orleans Owners
If anyone on the list is in the New Orleans area could you please contact me. I am trying to gather a few people to attend the meeting that is going to be in Alabamma soon.
If you live anywhere in the New Orleans area (or anywhere in Louisianna) please let me know and we will see if we can make some arrangements to meet up and follow each other to the meeting.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:58:02 -0400 From: Harley Cascio <harley@Radix.Net> Subject: Re: DML: Interested in the DMC 12
Andy, I know how much fun it is to get a car that you think will be a hobbie to work on. But that was my first car, '74 MGB, and I loved it. However, it isn't something I'd recomend. I know that you don't want to hear this, but without a car that you can always use, it'll really be a pain in your tail. This is my recomendation, wait until you are really able to leave your hobby on the jacks for a week without it taking your transportation away.
Harley
At 04:57 PM 10/19/98 -0400, dmcnews@world.std.com wrote: >Hi, My name is Andy. I really like Deloreans and I have been looking >around for information on them. I am 15 and I liked them a lot when I >was younger, before I knew anything about cars, and of course, It was in >"Back to the Future" that I first saw one. Recently I have seen the >movie again and I also saw one in "The Wedding Singer". From what I have >gathered, they go for about $16,000 to $20,000, depending on their >condition. I really would like to get a "D" with a few problems and fix >it up. I really like how they have features of world class automobiles >at a fraction of the cost. My dad currently owns a '73 DeTomaso Pantera >that is black with a black interior and has a delta spoiler. Anyway, my >main questions are: A: Can a Delorean be painted, and B: Are there any >people who know of Deloreans for sale in the Ohio area or anyone who can >provide me with further information on the car. > >P.S. Feel free to E-mail me back about the Pantera!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Wilson <fluffy@snurgle.org> Subject: [long] Re: DML: DMC Crash worthiness
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, lseiler@radiance.com wrote:
Hate to get into a big physics argument here; everyone is in agreement on the basic effects of things (crashing is bad and faster is worse), but I'll present the real physics here.
> 1. "mathematically you'd have to rear-end someone on the freeway going at > least 110-120 mph to get the results you saw in the video". > > This is not so while it seams logical that the effect of hitting a moving > object at twice it's own speed to have the same impact value as hitting a > stationary object at half that speed. In the case of two moving objects, > the amount of energy absorbed and the amount of deformation in either > depend on their individual masses and the inertial forces of both. Such a
While the physics books will tell you that, in fact, an object at 120MPh hitting another one at 60 MPh has the same properties as a 60-0 collision, of course, the higher speed collision will be much worse. It's due to engineering effects though, like what happens when your wheels stop turning and your frame bends at 90 Mph is a lot worse than if all this happens at 30. Common sense is all that is required to think about this.
> 3. "2-the wall absorbs no energy " > > THIS IS DEAD WRONG The wall absorbed a great deal of energy! > much of which is transmitted to the ground, with the rest being > transmitted back into the
Well, the wall absorbs all the momentum, and the car absorbs all the energy. But none of this matters, because the key component is acceleration. It's like they say, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the ground.
The key statistic is the acceleration imparted to the driver, and the speed with which he decelerates and the propensity for him to collide with other objects in the car. Crumple zones reduce the first and simple good design reduces the second (i.e. the steering wheel should break or drop out rather than being shoved into the driver's chest). Obviously the car must decelerate from 30 (or 40) to 0 almost instantly and the wall has no change of speed at all.
Crumple zones can be illustrated by the following. Assume simple physics. F=MA (force = mass times acceleration). We care about the driver. Now, assume a perfectly rigid car hits the wall. We know the wall isn't going anywhere. Therefore the car must decelrate instantly (since it is rigid). Acceleration is change in speed/time. Speed change is 30 and time is 0, The acceleration approaches infinity. ouch. Now let's assume a car with a crumple zone of, say, 2 feet. Now, figure time. Assume the car decelerates evenly. At 15 mph (average of 30 and 0) we are traveling 22 feet per second and cover that 2 feet in 0.09 seconds. Now, we go back and plug that 0.09 into the speed/time equation. Change in speed is 44 (feet per second) and time is 0.09. 44 divided by 0.09 is an acceleration of 489 feet per second per second or about 15G. That's not very pleasant but I'm going to live through it (assuming I don't get impaled, struck by flying engine parts, or something).
Of course, this is an oversimplification. But it shows you how important these things are.
> 3. "3-hitting someone on the freeway would cause them to absorb your > energy and momentum."
Any non-fixed object will absorb some energy when hit. Freeway collisions tend to be worse because of all the other variables, like the potential to roll, shearing forces, the potential to be hit by other cars, the potential for fire, and the potential to kill yourself in a variety of ways that the tests simply can't cover.
Answer this. Would you rather hit another car on the freeway at 120Mph, a parked car at 60Mph, or a telephone pole at 30Mph? Well, you might have the same kinetic energy transfer in all three, but I'd just as soon hit the pole.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:50:14 -0500 From: scottmueller@zebra.net (Scott Mueller) Subject: Re: DML: DeLorean accident (updated)
James Espey wrote: > > Things are going well, albeit slow IMO, with the repairs to my DeLorean.
> in hand and that amount did not include shipping to/from Houston. That > alone will probably run about another $1,000. Not sure if I am entitled > to a rental car, either, but DMC estimates about two months to complete > if there is not hidden damage (fiberglass, suspension, inner door > mechanisms, etc.). > > More as it happens... > > James
James, I went through this last year with my Truck, to date, the insurance company has spent $22,000 repairing it, including a rental of an equivalent vehicle. Yes, the decimal place is correct.
You should demand that they ship it to Houston, since that is the correct place to have it repaired and insist on a rental vehicle. The other guys company is responsible for repairing the vehicle correctly or totaling the vehicle. Show them D-1's adds for the $35,000 Deloreans, that will wake them up.
Scott Mueller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:02:55 -0400 From: Jack Stiefel <dmc-flux@geocities.com> Subject: Re: DML: Re: Speaker Boxes
Hi Marc A Levy, you wrote on 10/20/98 7:52:05 AM:
>Based on the picture you have, I do not see how the seats can go back >all the way. > >On my car, if the seats are pushed back as far as they can go, and the >back is reclined as far as it can go, the seat back follows the same >angle as the cargo net. > >The box you have does not follow the angle of the cargo net, so I am >guessing the seat adjustment range is limited. This is why my >requirements were that the box should fit with the cargo net over it. > >I guess my search will continue, or I will have to go pay some bux to >have a custom box built. My attempt at building a box has been, well... >Poor! I am no carpenter! > > >Duke wrote: >> >> I can make you a box perfect for a set of 10's or 12's. It will fit >> perfectly in the storage space but you won't be able to use the cargo >net. >> You can see pics of mine at my website. I've added new equipment and >will >> update the pics on the stereo equipment Wednesday. Email me if you're >> interested. >> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8952/picpage4.html
I can say for myself that it is possible to build acceptable boxes in a "D". I have built one for my car. I have 2 Kenwood 4-way 6x9's and one 12 inch Rockford Fosgate sub in the middle.
Basically what I did was to buy a single sub box and add 2 smaller boxes to the outer ends of the sub box. This allowed me to put the sub in its own box and the 6x9's in their own. I then ran all wires through to the left side and connected them to 3 quick connect terminals. Then the wires run to the amp mounted under my seat. This way I can remove the box without much effort.
I realize that you have 2 subs, but according to my measurements, I have room left over on the shelf where if I were to add another sub I could make a new box.
Now the cargo net will still not work, but there is just not enough room for subs with the room under the net. Subs need a certain amount of cubic space of air to work correctly.
Mine box is not as big as Dukes. I am able to move my seat anywhere I wish. I think you can do the same thing with a smaller box and the right speakers.
BTW I also mounted my cd changer in the glove box. worked out real well
Jack Stiefel Blade Runner Tackle Corporation
DeLorean Vin Number 3461 DeLorean Build Date of August 1981
Visit me at www.geocities.com/rodeodrive/8601/delorean.html or www.bladerunnertackle.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:14:44 -0000 From: James Espey <espey@dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: Re: The DeLorean Communication Center
On 10/20/98 11:34 PM, Mostafa Sayed shared these thoughts...
> I have recently finished a new project called the "DeLorean >Communication Center" or DCC, the whole idea is to get all the DeLorean >enthusiasts to communicate over one system, except for e-mail, which the >DML has well taken care of. Below I've listed what the site includes.
(SNIP)
Many DML'ers have emailed me to complain about this person. Evidently he has used the archives of the DML as a source to get addresses to promote this little project. I have emailed him and explained that unsolicted email, no matter what the content, constitutes spam and that his use of the list for his own self-serving purpose was unethical.
The idea of overlapping areas will only a dis-service to DeLorean enthusiasts, as it will dilute the participation and content.
I apologize to the list members who were contacted by Mostafa without their consent. I understand that he is young, and while not all people in their teens are irresponsible, his actions certainly show why that seems to be the popular notion.
James Espey Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List http://www.dmcnews.com
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V3 #430 *****************************
Postings to the DELOREAN MAILING LIST are the opinions of the author and not necessarily those of the list moderator (James Espey) or his Internet Service Provider(s). The list moderator makes every effort to screen out false, misleading, and negative postings, but it is up to you, the reader of the DELOREAN MAILING LIST, to realize that nothing should be taken as actual fact without research and investigation of your own.
Go to previous digest | Go to next
digest.
Back
to DeLorean Mailing List Page.
Return to Back Issues page.
Search the back issues.
Having problems with these pages? Have a good idea for the back Issues? Email me at: backissues@dmcnews.com
Member of the LinkExchange