From: eGroups Digest <dmcnews(AT)egroups.com>
To: <digest(AT)dmcnews.com>
Subject: dmcnews digest
Date: Sunday, October 24, 1999 3:16 AM

eGroups Daily Digest: dmcnews has 32 new messages.
Click here http://www.eGroups.com/list/dmcnews/?start=3970 to read them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
3970. yugoman                   Re: Keys and Limited Addition Kits
3971. Dave Swingle              Sending Private Emails
3972. DeLorean31(AT)aol.com        Re: Some more questions
3973. Jim Shaughnessy           Re: Some more questions
3974. Dirk Wacker               Re: The body dies are in the ocean - but can THIS
3975. Mike $                    Delorean Spoiler
3976. Mike $                    Blackouts
3977. Grimsrud, Knut S          Regarding the concours thread and common misconce
3978. Stian Birkeland           DeLorean Key & Key Code Tag
3979. Martin Gutkowski          Re: UK DeLorean Appearance
3980. PaulF52093(AT)aol.com        Re: The body dies are in the ocean - but can THIS
3981. Montgomery, Ken           Re: Another nit from the Judging Handbook
3982. saintern                  bra?
3983. Paul Parker               Re: DeLorean Key & Key Code Tag
3984. DMC5524(AT)aol.com           Re: transmission problems!
3985. Lee                       Re: Keys and Limited Addition Kits
3986. Mrgolf77(AT)aol.com          Hauling a DeLorean
3987. DMCIMF(AT)aol.com            Re: Number correlation put to rest
3988. Thomas Smithson Associates Re: Blackouts
3989. Santo Commarato           Water Pump Blues!
3990. Dave Stragand             D-Day in Pittsburgh
3991. Ann & Ed Thompson         Re: Another nit from the Judging Handbook
3992. Doc                       Re: Keys and Limited Addition Kits
3993. RYERSON,TERRI             Yellow "D" and mysterious fuel problem
3994. Dave Swingle              Water Pump Procedure
3995. James Espey               Spare Tire Air
3996. DMC83in99(AT)aol.com         Re: Hauling a DeLorean
3997. Dirk Wacker               DeLorean Steel Products
3998. Danrc30                   huh?
3999. Dave Swingle              Re: transmission problems!
4000. Martins                   DeLorean at Auction
4001. William T Wilson          Re: huh?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: "yugoman" <mdrig(AT)email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:00:54 -0400
Subject: [DML] Re: Keys and Limited Addition Kits
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My car only had one key, and it was a duplicate :^( I ordered two from Lee,
it took a while but they look beautiful, now I feel that my car has the
right keys! I know how easy it is to bite off more than you can chew, but I
do appreciate Lee's efforts on behalf of our favorite car :^)

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From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle(AT)enteract.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:15:22 -0500
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Subject: [DML] Sending Private Emails
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Something that the list needs to be aware of. As a spam-prevention measure,
eGroups "hides" email addresses by dropping the last character of the name,
just before the (AT), when mail is posted to the archive. It generally appears
normally in the messages that get sent out and in the offline digests and
archives.

If you see an email address that looks like joeblo-(AT)somewhere.com, the "-"
is the replacement character. If you need to figure out someone's address,
the moderators can usually look it up.

Sorry about the confusion, but this does (kind of) keep the Spammers from
harvesting everyone's email address for nefarious purposes.

Dave

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From: DeLorean31(AT)aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:08 EDT
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Subject: [DML] Re: Some more questions
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In a message dated 10/21/99 10:35:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
DMC83in99(AT)aol.com writes:

<< Second, based on the first question, does anyone have any parts numbers 
for a 
 Motorola or Delco alternator? >>

Rob Grady sells the Delco Alternator.  I recently put one in my car and am 
extremely happy with its performance even when all accesories are used at 
once.  It never drops below 13.

Gary Gore
Activities Director
DeLorean Mid Atlantic

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:50:08 -0400
From: Jim Shaughnessy <jjs(AT)toad.net>
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Does the voltage pick up a bit with higher RPMs?  

I had a similar problem when I first got my car.  At idle, the voltage
would drop to the point where the battery light would start to come on. 
I replaced the battery twice (first replacement had a weak cell) and
eventually, it just wouldn't start.  I was getting proper voltages
everywhere and was starting to suspect the coil.  Eventually, I checked
all the fuses and found all of them oxidized and two with burn marks and
starting to distort.  I replaced all the fuses and cleaned up the fuse
block.  It started right up and I haven't had any electrical problems
since. 

Jim
#11544

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:45:41 +0200
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From: bettycat(AT)t-online.de (Dirk Wacker)
Subject: [DML] Re: The body dies are in the ocean - but can THIS be true? Amazing!
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DeLorean Steel Products - our answer to 3401, 3416, 3421, 3424, 3447, =
3448

Dear Stian Birkeland, SteveDMC, Michael Reinemuth, John Hanley, =
SweatyEddy :-)
I will give you an answer to all your questions and speculations. =
Because of my holidays I had no chance to answer earlier.
At first thanks to Michael Reinemuth for taking care and speech during =
my absence.=20
The websites you have seen was a test-run at the delorean.ch to check =
speed, overall look etc. under real internet conditions.
This are not the final sites and this sites will not appear at the =
delorean.ch. As mentioned before: THIS WAS A TEST-RUN !!!
But, thanks god, SweatyEddy saw the picture of his car. Eddy, I =
appologize again for this. We got this picture from a guy in the USA who =
told us that this pictures are "free". We don't know the source of this =
pictures. We removed this pictures and I hope that everything is o.k. =
now.
We painted so much stainless steel, there are enough photos available.=20
And Steve, I don't know where you have seen a picture of a yellow =
painted DeLorean. Not at our test-sites. We used pictures of a red and a =
black (Eddie's car) DeLorean. I suggest to be more careful next time =
when using words like "scam" and assertions like "there is definatly =
something up with this company".

Now something about the company:
I dont know if the body dies are in the ocean or somewhere else. But I =
know that we do not have them !
We prepared for nearly two years and I told you: you don't need the =
original dies to reconstruct the body panels.
We have some special tools to do this by hand. According to this the =
statement of Michael Reinemuth was not quite correct.
We done some parts as a model. I mean real body parts, not only key- and =
plateholders. It's not so difficult as it's said to be.
The question is if it is necessary to reconstruct a body part. As long =
as the original parts are available go to DMC Houston or DeLorean One =
and get them.
I'm sure they are willing to sell. Only in special cases it may be pithy =
to reconstruct a body part. But it is possible !
There are also some kind of damages that can't be repaired on stainless =
steel. We can't do magic but our work is really good. But it's stainless =
steel, not sheet metal. You can't use
spatula, filler, surfacer and paint. There is never a gurantee for a =
perfect result.
Everyone who has any doubts is invited to visit us. Every part we offer =
is available !
Watch the final sites at:
http://www.de-lorean-steel-products.purespace.de=20

Best wishes
Dirk Wacker (VIN # 6795)
DeLorean Steel Products, Germany

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From: "Mike $" <sheilaridez(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:37:15 GMT
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What spoiler is most commonly used on the Delorean?  Is it off another car 
or bought aftermarket?  I've seen many pictures of them with the a nice 
looking spoiler on the back.  BTW  I'm picking up my first Delorean next 
Friday, it is red with around 30,000 miles on it.
thanks,
Mike Schaefer

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From: "Mike $" <sheilaridez(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:39:36 GMT
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I've seen some DMC's with front blackouts on the lights.  Are these 
Home-made or are they available to purchase somewhere?
thanks again,
Mike Schaefer

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From: "Grimsrud, Knut S" <knut.s.grimsrud(AT)intel.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:58:28 -0700
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Subject: [DML] Regarding the concours thread and common misconceptions
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I have been following the concours discussion thread with some interest and
wanted to share some thoughts in areas where I feel that there is some
misconception being propagated. In my view, the two primary
issues/misconceptions that the discussion seems to point at are:

1. The concours competitions is so tough that it is unrealistic for driven
cars to compete.

2. The competition is so picky that arbitrary nits are make/break for the
competition.

Although there has been discussion about hypothetical and contrived
scenarios to attempt making these points, based on what I have seen thus
far, I have seen no data to support either of these positions. A couple of
the contrived scenarios I'd like to immediately dispel include:

> If you replace a fuse, is it original?

The councourse handbook spells out the judged items and originality of the
actual fuses are not included. The fusebox is judged in the Millenium
competition, but the judging criteria are for the condition of the fusebox
itself, not of the originality of the actual fuses. The fusebox is
specifically judged for condition since it is not completely unnusual for
fusebox maintenance neglect to result in overheating of the fusebox and
melting/deformation. A damanged fusebox is something that I don't think
anyone would dispute is appropriate to include in the judging. Use of fused
jumpers instead of proper fuses is also tagged (this is one common
workaround for a melted fusebox). Examination of the handbook should address
most issues related to contrived questions of this sort.

> If you have something repaired is it no longer "as shipped from factory"?

If something is repaired properly, then it should be fairly
indistinguishable from "as shipped." If something is repaired improperly
with duct tape and bailing wire, then I think it makes to deduct
accordingly.

> Two major flaws are that I did not keep the original windshield wiper
blades or battery.

As spelled out in the handbook, there is no (or minimal) deduction for
having a replacement battery, provided it is consistent with the original
battery (which I think was an A/C Delco Freedom). The original wiper blades
were Bosch which are commonly available replacements today.

> I also think it is somewhat of a put-down to "loose" because a radiator
clamp has been replaced

I am not aware of any situation in which the deciding factor for a winning
car has been a nit. At the St. Louis competition, I think three full points
separated the first and second place cars (which makes them extremely close)
and 9 points separated the second and third place. However, most of the
deductions I encountered were for a fraction of a point each, so contrived
nits have not been the deciding factor in determining placemnet.

Since not everyone that enters a concours competition can be the winner,
some criteria is needed to differentiate the cars. The criteria that the
Millenium concours uses to differentiate cars is originality, condition, and
presentation. It is unclear whether a better set of criteria can be arrived
at for differentiating the cars.

Back to the original issues -- I wanted to write a couple words regarding
the original two issues/misconceptions I started off with:

1. The concours competitions is so tough that it is unrealistic for driven
cars to compete.

This is decidedly not the case. Having a pristine undriven car trailered to
a competition is neither necessary nor sufficient to compete in a concours.
There is specific data to dispel this myth -- Ken Koncelik took 3rd place
with his car that I believe he drove in from the northern midwest. Also,
there was a car competing with only 290 miles on it (likely never
registered) that did not win (I don't think it even placed in the top 3).

Relating to interiors (which I had a chance to examine in a little more
detail), I don't think there was any correlation between the interior scores
and the number of miles on the cars. The only wear item that I noticed in
any of the cars was on the driver's seatbottom (the side pad of the
seatbottom that is closest to the driver's door) and for modest/normal wear
I only deducted a fraction of a point for such wear (it was generally fairly
minor). None of the other deductions I took for the interior were generally
wear related. When I get the score sheets all back, I will tabulate the
average points deducted on each item and describe the most common interior
judging deductions in order to provide additional insight into this. My
recollection was that most deductions were related to fit and finish of
various interior components as well as preparation (nearly half the cars had
non-original floormats installed, several cars had poor interior panel fit
where the upper door panel joins the armrest, several cars had poor fit of
the plastic bezel around the door latch with the front edge of th bezel
baing popped up at the front and overlapping the airvent bezel, etc). Such
items have little correlation with mileage or even use/wear.

2. The competition is so picky that arbitrary nits are make/break for the
competition.

I am not aware of this having ever happened, but it is true that the detail
of judging has to be sufficient to discrimminate between two otherwise
exceptional cars in order to identify a single winner. The fairness of such
judging goes both ways -- while much discussion has centered around the
issue of having points deducted for attention to detail, when two oterwise
identical cars are being compared, I feel it is only fair to the owner who
_has_ paid the attention to detail to recognize the differentiation. It is
appropriate to recognize that one owner has gone to the trouble of using a
recognized appropriate replacement over another who may not have, and the
way in which this is recognized is through the way points are awarded.

I'll include a writeup on the common items I discovered on the interior
judging when I get the judging sheets back, so you can get a better feel for
the common issues encountered and how they might relate to expectations as a
competitor.

		Knut

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From: "Stian Birkeland" <dmc_norway(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:39:44 PDT
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Subject: [DML] DeLorean Key & Key Code Tag
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Hello,
I have read all the messages regarding the Concours Handbook, and I have a 
question...

1) If the concours' vision is to show a complete automobile, a like-new 
automobile I would guess that also the key to the car is important. There is 
no way to see any difference between the original key and the replica.

2) The only way to include the DeLorean's key in the Concours is to also see 
the Key Code Tag along with the key.

This is a metal tag showing a four-digit number that was included with the 
original key. The four-digit number is NOT the VIN number.

One example - DeLorean VIN 6759 has the Key Code Tag 7670.

3) Is the VIN vs. Key Code Tag a constant number?
The difference between the two numbers is 911. Is 911 the difference between 
other key/key code tags? Anyone???

(Funny number since 911 is a hotline-rescue number in America - Is the 
DeLorean inherited with bad omens?)

PS! Disregard the last sentence in parenthesis - The DeLorean is a safe and 
reliable car, but rumors will have it that the car is bad. It is not. It is 
the most brilliant car ever conceived! A+

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
NORWAY

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:57:22 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin.is(AT)connect-2.co.uk>
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Yep,

It was Simon's car used together with his other two classics to demonstrate
the phasing out of leaded petrol on which his Maserati and Ferrari depend. The
DIDN't say that the D is the only classic car to run natively on Un-leaded,
but that wasn't what it was about. They used the car as a "Back to the Future"
theme travelling forward in time to see Lead Replacement Petrol (LRP) and into
the past to see why lead is in petrol in the first place.

The car is only in shot for about 10 seconds total, but the BTTF theme runs
throughout the article.

Martin
DeLorean Owners Club UK Website
http://delorean.connect-2.co.uk

Tris Harvey-Rice wrote:

> I've been told that tomorrow (Friday) night, BBC's Watchdog programme will
> contain some DeLorean footage and references - set the video!
>
> All the best,
>
> Tris Harvey-Rice
> ------
> Editor, DeLorean Owners Club Magazine

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From: PaulF52093(AT)aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:14:39 EDT
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Subject: [DML] Re: The body dies are in the ocean - but can THIS be true? Amazing!
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Dirk Wacker says he's never seen a yellow-painted DeLorean.  I have, at least 
once.  On the day I picked up my '82 D at the Consolidated International 
warehouse in Columbis, Ohio in early December '83, there were about 400 of 
the cars sitting forlornly in a field.  Of all these, four were painted.  Two 
were a delightful gloss black, one was a cherry red, and the fourth was what 
I can only call "Mack Truck yellow."  I'll say this for it ... it certainly 
stuck out in the crowd!

I hope I never have to paint mine (after 16 years the body is still intact, 
except for recurring dust) but if I do, I'll probably opt for the gloss 
black,  It looks really good -- not as unique as the brushed stainless steel, 
but not too bad!

If anyone knows what became of the yellow one, please let me know!

Paul Feine
#10944

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From: "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm(AT)csus.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:41:22 -0700
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   <snip>
  

> #6419 still has the original tires (less than 10K miles), but 
> they do not still 
> have all the original air.  Some after market air has been 
> added over the years. 
> I suppose there is some minor difference between Northern 
> Ireland air and Virginia
> air, but I won't mention it to the judge if you won't. 

I did the judging on the luggage areas at the St. Louis Expo and I would
ask the owners if they had the original air in the spare tire, just to
lighten up the process for the owners. Only one of them laughed. The
rest gave me that 'deer-in-the-headlights' look and I had to tell them I
was only joking. Two of the cars did have flat tires, and since I didn't
have a gauge, all I could do was to see if they seemed to have enough
air in the spare to be useable. If so, no deduction.

There were also 2 cars in the show that were 'People's Choice' cars. One
of them had a Northstar V8 wedged inside. Personally, I love seeing the
modified cars. I wouldn't do that myself, but I also wouldn't want to
drive my car without better than stock relays, the 'Zilla' gadgets, and
a nice, smooth set of tires. 

To me, a winning car is 'better' than factory. It's 100% clean,
everything is attached perfectly without extra glue or bits showing,
there are no dents or damage and the car is made to be perfect on the
road.

************
BTW, a printed version of the DeLorean Owners Directory will be
available soon. Watch for details here and on the website.
************

================================================================
Ken Montgomery	    Sacramento, CA       VIN #10911  'OUTTIME'
http://www.jps.net/arkham/delorean01.htm    mailto:kenm(AT)csus.edu
Northern California DeLorean Motor Club
http://members.tripod.com/ncdmc/
Keeper of the DeLorean Owners Directory
http://www.dmcnews.com  mailto:directory(AT)dmcnews.com
================================================================

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:25:35 -0400
From: saintern <saintern(AT)peri.com>
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I've tried the backissues to no avail.....does anyone know of any
contact info for obtaining a bra for the D? I've seen them before , and
I'm not sure if they are still available. Anyone like to sell theirs?
-Don

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From: "Paul Parker" <peptwo(AT)jps.net>
References: <19991022183949.32061.qmail(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:22:53 -0700
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Subject: [DML] Re: DeLorean Key & Key Code Tag
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In reply to Stian Birkeland's question of VIN# and key tag #:  My VIN # is
1373 and my key code # is 7408.  A heck of lot more of a difference than
911,  Paul Parker #1373

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From: DMC5524(AT)aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:37:35 EDT
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Subject: [DML] Re: transmission problems!
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In a message dated 10/21/99 9:51:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
fluffy(AT)snurgle.org writes:

<< in fact most "big rigs" and race cars still work this way. >>

This isn't exactly about DeLoreans but I it falls in to that category of "not 
exactly correct". While most "big rigs" do not have synchronized 
transmissions, practically all race cars (circle track, roundy-round) have 
synchronized transmissions. Transmissions so well machined that they rarely 
need to use the clutch to easily shift gears.

Anyway to make a long story short, if the synchronizer is bad the 
transmission should be opened and repaired. There could be other damage or 
you might prevent further damage. Double clutching is simply a "band-aid" 
technique to use until you can get the transmission repaired.

My 2 cents,

Dave
1981 DMC VIN 5524
1992 Subaru SVX

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:27:41 -0700
From: Lee <Lee(AT)radiance.com>
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At 11:00 PM 10/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
>My car only had one key, and it was a duplicate :^( I ordered two from Lee,
>it took a while but they look beautiful, now I feel that my car has the
>right keys! 

Snip......................
.................Snip]

I know how easy it is to bite off more than you can chew,

reply:  Ok already....I appreciate the comments, but let me make it clear
that both the keys and kits are something I do in my spare time, not a
profession or occupation. With me it's quality first and every thing else
second. With a few exceptions all keys have been made and shipped. I even
have a small supply on hand.

If you ordered keys and have not been in contact with me is say 30 days and
are waiting for keys, you should e-mail "in private" so I can get your keys
to you.

There are some new Kit photos of an edition being built by an owner that
will soon be on the edition Internet page.

Sorry DML for the post but some seam to have forgotten the DMC Bulletin board.

Thanks for the support.

 >but I do appreciate Lee's efforts on behalf of our favorite car :^)

Lee

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From: Mrgolf77(AT)aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:15:44 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: [DML] Hauling a DeLorean
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Hello,
    I finally purchased an 81 DeLorean after many years of looking.  I still 
have to go pick the car up in southern New York.  I plan to go get in on the 
10th of November with the help of my father.  It will be a 795 mile trip from 
here, Grand Rapids Michigan.  The car has been sitting for many years and I 
cant drive it back.  A friend offered to let me use his double axle trailer 
but I have nothing to pull it with at the time.  (just dont think a saturn 
could do it,lol)  I checked with u-haul and they want almost $600.00 to rent 
a truck for that many miles.  I am in high school and would like to take the 
cheapest possible way out.  I could take a Greyhound bus down and a u-haul 
back but that isnt much cheeper.  couldnt I have a car hauler bring it to me 
for cheaper than that?  I could be wrong.  There is a DeLorean on ebay right 
now that can be shipped from the UK to Baltimore for around $600.   I may 
have to end up paying uhaul, but I sure wish I could save a few hundred 
getting it back.  has anyone on the list ever had a dmc shipped to them?  if 
anyone has any ideas I would be more than happy to hear them.  
Thanks

Phelps,
vin# test car

------------------------------ message 3987 ------------------------------
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From: DMCIMF(AT)aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:22:17 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: [DML] Re: Number correlation put to rest
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The Vehicle Identification no. and the Engine no is also listed in the header 
if each cars window sticker.

     Bill Glover
     DMCIMF (AT) AOL
     D #  6905

------------------------------ message 3988 ------------------------------
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From: "Thomas Smithson Associates" <tsassoc(AT)hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:49:44 -1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: [DML] Re: Blackouts
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Mike, I have blackouts on my D obtained from J-M Enterprises. Contact Bert
Middleton (818) 334-5262.

Thom Smithson
VIN #3089
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike $ <sheilaridez(AT)hotmail.com>
To: dmcnews(AT)egroups.com <dmcnews(AT)egroups.com>
Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 9:50 AM
Subject: [DML] Blackouts

>I've seen some DMC's with front blackouts on the lights.  Are these
>Home-made or are they available to purchase somewhere?
>thanks again,
>Mike Schaefer
>
>______________________________________________________
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Before posting messages or replies, see the posting policy rules at:
>www.dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderator(AT)dmcnews.com
>
>
>

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From: "Santo Commarato" <scommara(AT)geocities.com>
References: <0.2b5a72f1.2540fc46(AT)aol.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:16:29 -0400
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Ok....Here's a fun one =).  My water pump went.  I got a new one, took the
manifold off, replaced said water pump, put everything back together.  The
cooling issue seems to be straight, but the engine is definately not running
right.  Without the airbox on, I can see the large round valve repeatedly
popping up and causing the engine to stop.  It definately wasn't doing this
before I did this project.  (Please excuse poor terminology from this part
forth - I still haven't mastered the engine layout =) ) There are 3
adjustment screws mounted on the rear section of the air intake.  I believe
the 3rd one in (According to the workshop manual) is an idle adjustor, and
that the front 2 adjust the gas/air mixture.....In any case, what are the
correct settings (or at least approx) for these screws?  While running the
engine trying to get it to idle, I also noticed that the exhaust pipes were
starting to glow orange, I'm guessing because of the mixture being too rich?

As you can see, I'm having a few problems this week =)  Any advice or ideas
on how to proceed would be much appreciated!

Sam
05616

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:58:59 -0400
From: "Dave Stragand" <dave.stragand(AT)ketchum.com>
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Subject: [DML] D-Day in Pittsburgh
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It's D minus 10 hours now for me picking up my new D -- It's a 5-speed
'81 with a gray interior -- I believe it does have the gas flap, but I'm
not sure

Picking up is the operative word, because I'm bringing several boxes and
a shovel.  It's totally disassembled.  Here's the situation:

The current owner, a Lotus collector, bought the car in 1990 for his
then-wife.  The car was in perfect working order, but had been a
driver.  He took the car apart for a thorough cleaning and restoration.
Shortly therafter, he went through a divorce and the car has remained
untouched since.

- The body shell has been totally stripped down -- all of the stainless,
interior, mechanicals, and the suspension removed, and is currently
sitting on the floor on a couple of wooden palettes.  It's still on the
frame.  And no, I don't know how solid the frame is yet, unfortunately.
- The engine has been removed and totally disassembled
- The windshield and rear glass were broken during the attempted removal
of the doors (the breaking rear glass startled them and they dropped the
some tools on the windshield, cracking it badly. Ouch!)
- The stainless (including the left front fender) is all in good
condition, save for the passenger door which has two fist-sized dents
below the trim strip in the wide vinyl stripe.  I'll need some tips on
fixing those, I guess, but I haven't searched the DMC News back issues
yet.
- The car has a heavy layer of greasy dust all over it.  I'm hoping this
has protected it.
- He has a service manual, and several boxes of literature, NOS parts
including a new steering rack, 4 new rotors, and a set of unused ground
effects.  They're all thrown in with the deal.
- There are 4 good NCT's on the rims

Without the wheels, it's going to be a hard thing to move.  I couldn't
locate a car trailer wide enough, so I rented a 27' U-Haul truck to take
it home in.  We have enough people to lift the shell in & out of the
truck (I hope - I'm guessing a weight of around 900 pounds as-is w/just
frame-pontoon-doors) but piloting a 27', manual transmission truck with
no first gear and a bad starter makes for lots of white knuckles in
traffic and up & down the steep hills of Pittsburgh.  It's certainly not
a glorious entrance, but it'll have to do.

I am a pretty mechanical person, as I have a 1958 Plymouth that I have
restored.  Obviously, this is quite a different challenge.  I believe
that with some guidance I can successfully reassamble the car.  Luckily,
as fate would have it, there is another D (not running, but complete)
only about half a mile away that I can use for "reference" when
necessary, and  2 other running D's within 5 miles.  Having not
disassembled it myself, it will be fun putting it back together.  I'll
take all the help I can get!  =)

I planned to offer him $3000, and settle on $3500-$4000.  I figured this
was a no-lose price, as I could always part her out if I got too
discouraged (or broke).  However, he took a great deal less than I
expceted, so there's more room to spend on the restoration.  =)

To start, I could use a good used windshield, if anyone has one around.
And for any PITTSBURGH, PA owners, please drop me a line -- I'd like to
get in touch with some more of you, and hopefully have a "Bag it & Tag
it Parts Identification Party" sometime in the near future.

Please email me personally at dave.stragand(AT)ketchum.com with any
input/help/advice you may have.  Or, if you're in Pittsburgh, feel free
to give me a ring late Saturday afternoon or Sunday at 412-822-7385.

Dave Stragand
Pittsburgh, PA
VIN #: ?????? (but I'll know tomorrow!)

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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:34:41 -0400
From: Ann & Ed Thompson <RappaRivaRat(AT)erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <85D5318D4F0CD2118C6100A024B355503ADFB8(AT)skymail.csus.edu>
Subject: [DML] Re: Another nit from the Judging Handbook
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> "Montgomery, Ken" wrote:
>
> I did the judging on the luggage areas at the St. Louis Expo and I would
> ask the owners if they had the original air in the spare tire, just to
> lighten up the process for the owners. Only one of them laughed. The
> rest gave me that 'deer-in-the-headlights' look and I had to tell them I
> was only joking. 

Who in the world were these people??!!  Surely they were not one of "us".
If you are a DeLorean owner you MUST have a sense of humor.  Required!    
You should have deducted points for NOT laughing!

BTW, AFAIK all the air (not much) in my spare IS original!  But I don't
know if it is Northern Ireland air or QAC air.  How do I tell?  I don't have 
a clue as to where #6419's QAC was.  (A serious concern regarding an upcoming 
show where my DeLorean is represented to be "Completely Original".)

Regards,
Ed Thompson (#6419 since 1982)

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From: "Doc" <doctor280(AT)email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 02:18:40 -0400
Subject: [DML] Re: Keys and Limited Addition Kits
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Dale and to all the others following this thread,

What Lee is talking about, is that he has the ability to put the plastic DMC
head on any key. Now to do this he will require a key that you are using
that fits your car. Meaning that you can send him one of your Ford keys and
when it comes back to you it will look like a original DMC key.

Lee, if you need to add anything to this please do.

Robert Starling
Vin#5252

PS: I will reframe from using HTML format in the future. I was unaware that
it caused so much problems with some of the  list members. I hope the list
will forgive my ignorance in this matter.

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From: "RYERSON,TERRI" <tryerson(AT)neo.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:40:56 -0400
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Subject: [DML] Yellow "D" and mysterious fuel problem
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There have been a couple of posts recently regarding a yellow DeLorean =
seen in various places. One of these places was mentioned by Paul Feine, =
and was the Consolidated International warehouse in Columbus Ohio. I =
suspect that the yellow "D" mentioned is the one that is now laid up =
with a strange problem in my garage in Akron Ohio. I purchased this car =
locally in late July of this year and it is in excellent condition =
throughout, except for the problem mentioned below.

The extremely puzzling problem is as follows, and suggestions will be =
greatly appreciated!

The difficulty began when the car died on the freeway a couple weeks =
ago: not a slow death, it just quit w/o warning. After towing home, and =
checking all the simple things ( fuses, connections, etc. ), I =
discovered that there was no fuel pressure even though the pump was =
running.

After a check of the fuel tank internal lines and filter, it became more =
apparent that the pump had indeed failed. At this point, having nothing =
to loose, I cut the top ring off the pump in order to gain access to the =
internals for inspection. This showed a fairly large amount of what was =
apparently deteriorated "O" ring material all throughout and =
particularly inside the vane pump assembly.

After installing a new, exact replacement that my wife secured locally, =
the car ran normally the rest of the day ( approximately 15 miles ) that =
the new pump was installed. The next day however, was a different story. =
A short time after leaving home on the second trial, the engine began =
cutting out and in violently. When the accelerator was depressed more =
than approximately 1/4, the engine began cutting out and in and =
releasing the accelerator to less than 1/4 throttle stopped this effect. =
As long as less than 1/4 throttle was used it ran fine.

Although I don't have a suitable fuel pressure gauge to make certain, it =
appears that there may be a problem with the "control" fuel pressure =
from the control pressure regulator. This theory is because that the air =
flow sensor plate is now quite difficult to move while the engine is =
running, and when the throttle is manually "snapped" full open does not =
move downward nearly as much as it had previously when the engine was =
running well. This probably confirms that a lean running condition is =
now in effect.

I've checked the oxygen sensor, frequency valve, thermo time switch, =
thermal vacuum control valve           ( lambda thermal switch ), and =
lots of wire connections. All of these items appear to be functioning as =
they are intended with the possible exception of the frequency valve. =
The frequency valve is indeed cycling at the appropriate rate, but the =
duty cycle appears to be too long, which could explain at least part of =
the lean condition.

I plan to verify that the fuel return line is not restricted, but after =
that I'm completely out of ideas, and at this point have probably missed =
something simple.

If anyone has suggestions about all this I'd certainly appreciate the =
help!

George Ryerson

Tryerson(AT)neo.rr.com
DbPgmr(AT)ix.netcom.com

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From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle(AT)enteract.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:57:55 -0500
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With permission of the author, I have reproduced the "Cam's Volvo Clinic"
page on changing the water pump. This should answer lots of common questions
on the process. Includes photos.

Go to www.dmcnews.com, hit the link for "Techinical Library", and find the
"Change Water Pump link from there.

dave

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Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:35:20 -0500
From: James Espey <james(AT)usadmc.com>
Subject: [DML] Spare Tire Air
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At 10:34 PM -0500 10/22/99, Ann & Ed Thompson wrote:

>BTW, AFAIK all the air (not much) in my spare IS original!  But I don't
>know if it is Northern Ireland air or QAC air.  How do I tell?  I don't have
>a clue as to where #6419's QAC was.  (A serious concern regarding an upcoming
>show where my DeLorean is represented to be "Completely Original".)
>

Though I admit to feeling ridiculous for responding to this, I take comfort
inthe fact that I didn't start this inane subject.

The spare wheels were produced here in the states, as were the spare tires.
They were mounted in Illinois, and then shipped to the QAC's from there.

James

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From: DMC83in99(AT)aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:13:12 EDT
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Subject: [DML] Re: Hauling a DeLorean
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Phelps,

When I purchased my DeLorean from a dealership in Orlando, they had a person 
ship it to me.  It cost me 400 dollars, and I had it the day they contacted 
me. If my memory serves me right, it's close to 700 miles from where I live 
in NC to Orlando. If you are buying this from a dealership, you might talk to 
them about this possibility.  If not, check the phone book from the purchase 
area for car transportation, you might find a good deal about it that way.

Scott
#16738

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Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:43:47 +0200
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From: bettycat(AT)t-online.de (Dirk Wacker)
Subject: [DML] DeLorean Steel Products
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Hi to all !
We are online now. Visit us at: 

http://www.de-lorean-steel-products.purespace.de 

Best wishes
Dirk Wacker (VIN # 6795)
DeLorean Steel Products, Germany

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From: "Danrc30" <Danrc30(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:16:47 -0400
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Subject: [DML] huh?
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---->But I have heard that you're not supposed to change
the transmission oil on the DeLorean.<----snip

Why not?

---Dan

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Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fffff0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----&gt;But I have heard that you're not s=
upposed =

to change<BR>the transmission oil on the DeLorean.&lt;----snip</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why not?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>---Dan<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>

</body></html>

------=_NextPart_000_008A_01BF1D82.C50730C0--

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From: "Dave Swingle" <dswingle(AT)enteract.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:38:48 -0500
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On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Sean Spurlock wrote:
> This is a very peculiar problem. A friends DeLorean will not shift
> into first unless the shifter is brought down into second and then
> slammed back into first. Thsi is all accompanied by a slight grinding
WTW wrote:
...But I have heard that you're not supposed to change
the transmission oil on the DeLorean.

I'm not sure why this would be. I would change the oil. Regarding the
original problem I'd guess bad syncros as well, usually caused by leaving
the original plastic clutch line in the car too long. Bad part is, at least
in my case, was that the syncronizers (the brass part) were fine but the
sliding gear (the expensive part) was bad.

Regarding the comments about leaking, almost every manual DMC trans I've
ever looked at seeped a little. By design there is NO gasket between the
halves of the transmission case, only some Hylomar sealer and some very fine
machine work.  Best "cure" is to check the trans oil every time you change
the engine oil, and, as with most British cars, keep a sheet of cardboard on
the garage floor. The transmission holds almost a gallon of oil.

dave

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From: Martins <martins(AT)ntr.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:34:00 -0400
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I just got back from a Show/Collectors car auction here in Louisville, =
Kentucky. There were the usual '57 Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Buicks, and a =
slew of '64 Impalas. Of course I was looking for a DeLorean, though. My =
dad always teases me by saying "Look! A DeLorean!"; and I'll always turn =
my head. (Hey, who wouldn't?) Of course there never was a DeLorean, but =
today, the joke was on him! Comming to the end of a "warehouse" of cars =
waiting to auctioned, my attention was caught by a single gull-wing door =
sticking into the air. (If the door hadn't been open, I wouldn't have =
known the car was there) I instantly pointed it out to my Dad (he wan't =
very thrilled, by the way) but I picked up my pace of walking, and made =
my way to it. It's was an '81 (Gas flap, and lines in the hood), black =
interior (in pretty good condition), with a manual transmission. It was =
#0702, and in amazing conditon. It had a nice size dent in the hood (but =
not very deep), a small one in the front right fender, and a scratch =
near the rear--but those were the *only* physical things wrong with it. =
I didn't hear it start or see it being driven, so I don't know how good =
it was mechanically.=20
I know it's a real shot in the dark, but was anoyone here at the =
auction?=20

Wes

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Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:52:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: William T Wilson <fluffy(AT)snurgle.org>
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On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Danrc30 wrote:

> ---->But I have heard that you're not supposed to change
> the transmission oil on the DeLorean.<----snip
> 
> Why not?

Supposedly it will kill the seals and make the transmission leak.

It seems odd to me, too, but that is what I heard (I think I heard it
here, actually, but I don't remember from who, and it's also possible that
I heard or remember wrong).

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