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Wednesday, September 10 1997 Volume 03 : Number 280
In this issue:
DML: The Reliability Issue (Was: Re: Info Wanted (general questions
DML: Undercoating?
Re: DML: New Book?
DML: dmc parts wanted
DML: Turbocharged.
DML: Re: dmcnews-digest V3 #279
DML: Fuel system
Re: DML: Coolant
DML: Turbo Horsepower
Re: DML: Turbocharged.
Re: DML: Tail light fixes
DML: Stainless Frames
DML: Boston Area Member
DML: TWIN TURBO UNIT
DML: Fan Speed Thermal Trip
DML: AC Condenser
Re: DML: Turbocharged.
Re: DML: Stainless Frames
Re: DML: Stainless Frames
DML: Info on Single Turbo
Re: DML: Stainless Frames
Re: DML: Stainless vs epoxy coated frames
Re: DML: Stainless vs epoxy coated frames
DML: DeLorean Motor Company (Houston) to host event in Columbus, Ohio
DML: DMC Warehouse Dates
DML: DMC / KAPAC - "The Best Little Warehouse not in Texas" (yet)
DML: DMC Shocks
Re: DML: Stainless Frames
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:11:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: dlwrence(AT)ix.netcom.com
Subject: DML: The Reliability Issue (Was: Re: Info Wanted (general questions
The question of reliability has once again risen, and I just thought I
would
throw my $.02 into the pot.
The DeLorean is a 14-16 year old car, and, as such, requires the
attention applicable to ANY car of that age. You will notice too, that
most
of the parts that are failing are the ORIGINAL equipment parts
(alternator,
relays, fuel accumulator, etc). Things won't last forever, and no matter
how well you take care of something, there comes a time when parts will
need
to be replaced because they are simply worn out. I feel that for a 16
year
old car comprised mainly of Lucas parts:-), the D has held up remarkably
well. Contrast this to many other cars, foreign or domestic, which feel
spent and worn out after 5-10 years' time.
>Admittedly I've never owned a car, but my understanding has always
>been that there are quite a few cars that will run for 15 or 20 years
>on almost no maintenance and still be working pretty darn well ...
>(names that come to mind are the Corollas, Celicas, and 200SX's from
>around 1980; I also hear that Hondas are exceptionally reliable).
OK, well then, consider this. Nothing is supposed to be more tough and
rugged than an American truck, right? Go to the newsgroup
rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer. You will see people with problems from
the
A/C, transmissions, hard starting, electrical systems and engines to
shocks,
leaks, guages, cooling systems, etc (sounds familiar, huh?). From
reading
this newsgroup, you could come to the conclusion that the Explorer is not
very reliable and anyone who purchases one is headed for major repairs
down
the road. However, I have owned a '92 Explorer since new and it is the
most
trouble-free vehicle I have ever owned. I have not had any of the
problems
that these other people are having, so from my standpoint, the Explorer
is a
very reliable vehicle. I believe that for every make and model of car,
there are reliable examples and there are those with a few problems (even
Hondas, Corollas, and Celicas), but the ones with problems are the ones
you
hear about because these people are looking for help in getting their
cars
fixed. The DeLorean is no exception. My guess is that the majority of
the
owners out there are extremely happy and impressed by the reliability of
their DeLorean. Think about it this way. If you bought an American car,
and 50,000 miles later the alternator failed, would you just assume that
all
American cars are junk because the alternator didn't last forever, or
would
you simply accept this as normal wear and tear on the car, replace it,
and
be on your way? My guess would be the latter, and I believe that most D
owners feel the same about their cars (please feel free to correct me if
I'm
way out of line here). BTW, regular maintenance is a must on any car,
whether brand new or 30 years old.
>I've owned a heck of a lot of cars in my life and
>none have had this type of longevity and provided both reliable
>transportation and fun at the same time. (The only thing that has come
>close is my 68 VW Type III Squareback.)
Amen to that! Few cars are as indestructable and bulletproof as old
VW's,
with the possible exception of Mercedes Diesels ('79 300SD Turbo
Diesel-18
years and 260,000 miles and still going strong...).
I'll get off my soapbox now...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:17:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: dlwrence(AT)ix.netcom.com
Subject: DML: Undercoating?
While we are on the subject of frame rust, many automakers undercoat the
chassis of their cars to prevent it from rusting (people who live in
states
that salt the roads in winter can attest to this). Would this be a good
way
to prevent frame rust, or would it be rather redundant because of the
epoxy
already on the frame? Can the undercoating be used in place of the epoxy?
Thanks...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 03:01:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Baisley
Subject: Re: DML: New Book?
>
> Anyone read this book??
>
> JOURNEY INTO DARKNESS
> Arrington, Stephen
> 1992 NF PB GD
> $5.00
>
> John Z. Delorean drug case
>
> Just found a reference to it on the net... I know nothing else about it.
>
Yes, I saw the ad too, and bought it from the lady who was selling it. It
should arrive in the mail in the next few days. I'll let you know more
when I finish it.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 23:50:02 -0700
From: stimpy(AT)wans.net (Eric B Johnson)
Subject: DML: dmc parts wanted
Hello all, I am in search of several parts to help me complete
restoration of my 81 DMC. I am in need of a front fascia, front spoiler,
a/c condensor, and grill. Any leads for used parts would be greatly
appreciated.
thanx,
Eric Johnson
81 DMC #3010
90 300zx twinn turbo
95 Integra GS-R
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:24:56 -0700
From: bpayne(AT)macnet.com (Brandon Payne)
Subject: DML: Turbocharged.
If you add a turbocharger or a twon turbo to a DeLorean, how much
horsepower
can you get out of it? And do you have to change the transmission? Would
Nitrous Oxide boosters work with a DeLorean? Thanks!
Brandon J. Payne
bpayne(AT)macnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:41:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Deloreon03(AT)aol.com
Subject: DML: Re: dmcnews-digest V3 #279
should i get the accent sidestrip or keep the one on the delorean.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 97 23:05:14 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody"
Subject: DML: Fuel system
does anyone know of an alternate replacement for the RPM relay ?
Its one of the most poorly built things in the car, and I don't want to
put it back !
I'm still looking for an alternate fuel pump aside from the Bosh unit.
comment appreciated
- -brandon
bsmoody(AT)kih.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:17:11 -0700
From: cliff wallace
Subject: Re: DML: Coolant
Joel Matos wrote:
>
> Every time i drove my car no matter is 10 minutes or and hour i have to
> fill the coolant bottle. I look under the car to see if it has leaks and
> it
> does't.
>
> That is normal the car didnt overheat.
Has your radiator been recently serviced or the cooling system flushed?
If so, the normal coolant level will remain in the bottle after driving
the car and refilling the header bottle the fourth to sixth time since
service was performed.
After replacing the radiator and hoses and bleeding the cooling system
on my '81, I had to refill the bottle several times. After driving my
car about the fifth time, the coolant level has remained. It takes a
while to fill the 2.9 gallons of coolant the DeLorean requires.
Hope this helps some
CLiff Wallace
#3773
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:42:23 +0000
From: BRUCE BENSON
Subject: DML: Turbo Horsepower
>If you add a turbocharger or a twon turbo to a DeLorean, how much
>horsepower
>can you get out of it?
Brandon J. Payne
I have a computer program that takes the various engine specifics into
consideration and computes horse power. I used my own turbo setup as the
reference and used atmospheric air pressure at sea level. I had to make an
estimate as to the volume efficiency and friction drag on the engine.
Assuming a friction percentage of 5% and a volume efficiency of 90% I
added
5lbs. of boost to atmospheric air pressure at sea level and came up with a
horsepower figure of 177. The same program using these same assumptions
without the 5lbs. boost came up with 133hp which is very close to the
advertised horsepower of this engine.
Bruce Benson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:59:45 -0600 (MDT)
From: raddad(AT)cmn.net
Subject: Re: DML: Turbocharged.
Brandon Payne wrote: "If you add a turbocharger or a twin turbo to a
DeLorean, how much
horsepower can you get out of it? And do you have to change the
transmission? Would
Nitrous Oxide boosters work with a DeLorean? Thanks!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of those "it depends" questions. I believe that Island
Manifold once said their twin set-up will give you 200+ horsepower. Their
current ads don't quote a horsepower increase. Almost all the D service
centers suggest you keep the boost to 6.5 pounds max to preserve the
engine. With that boost (I run 6 pounds) I suspect you are looking at
30-40 HP increase. Obviously, if you go with forged pistons, total seal
rings, lower compression, etc. you can probably go 12 pounds or higher,
but
I don't know anyone who is running like that.
There is a nitrous kit that has been advertised in the DeLorean World in
the past.
As for the tranny, I've heard that you are pushing your luck with more
than
250 HP, but I don't know where that figure came from.
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:05:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: raddad(AT)cmn.net
Subject: Re: DML: Tail light fixes
Donovan wrote: OK, so the tail light fixes are cheap and have been
published many
times... I missed it. How can I keep my brake lights attached to the
board?
Also, does anybody have the twin turbo unit? Will I pass emissions?
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re tailights - it has to do with getting some small bolts from Radio Shack
and snugging up the connections. I didn't do this because I had already
purchased Rob Grady's industrial strength tail light boards. Perhaps
James
can supply you with the details - I think he last posted it.
I have the twin turbo set-up on my present D but I don't have to face
emission testing where I live. On my previous D I also had the twin turbo
set-up and I passed the CA emissions test "WITHOUT A CATALYTIC CONVERTER".
With the new set-up which includes "cats" I would think that you could
easily pass.
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:27:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: TVRUS(AT)aol.com
Subject: DML: Stainless Frames
Has anyone replaced there rusting frame with a new stainless steel frame
from
Peirce???? Aside from the new frame cost what did it cost to pull the old
frame off and put the new frame on??? And would you do it again???
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:59:35 -0400
From: Aldo.Buono(AT)phila.gov
Subject: DML: Boston Area Member
A good contact for De Loreans in the Boston Area is the President of
De Lorean New England:
Eleanor Rogers
849 Boston Post Road, #8A
Marlboro MA 01752
Home: 508-303-1924
I do not think that she is on the internet. Tell her I referred you
to her. Eleanor makes the Twin Turbo kits for De Loreans.
Aldo Buono
De Lorean Midatlantic, President
DMC, #14, Board of Governors
VIN 1440
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:06:14 -0400
From: Aldo.Buono(AT)phila.gov
Subject: DML: TWIN TURBO UNIT
Sold by:
Eleanor Rogers
849 Boston Post Road, #8A
Marlboro MA 01752
Home: 508-303-1924
Orders: 800-449-1248
From:
Aldo Buono
De Lorean Midatlantic, President
DMC #14 Board of Governors
VIN 1440
There is still time to register for Eastern Regional Run 7,
September
13 and 14, 1997, Richmond Virginia. Email: jsinger(AT)dmc12.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:34:35 -0400
From: Aldo.Buono(AT)phila.gov
Subject: DML: Fan Speed Thermal Trip
I believe Jack Singer reported a problem with the third speed and
fourth speed fan settings. If I recall correctly, Jack said that
the
third speed did not work at all, and the fourth speed would cut off
after running awhile.
One of your 40 Amp Circuit Breakers functions as a FAN SPEED THERMAL
TRIP. If either the third or fourth speed cut off after running
awhile, try replacing the circuit breaker, particularly if it is the
original breaker or an old breaker. You should examine carefully
the
connections to this breaker for signs of overheating. The
overheating
is usually caused by a loose fit of the female wire connectors to
the
male spade of the breaker. If the females have warped or melted,
replace the females also.
Jack noted that 3rd speed did not work at all. The third speed and
the fourth speed are each controlled by a separate relay. Test the
third speed relay by swithching the fourth speed relay with the third
speed relay to see if that makes the third speed work. These two
relays are also identical to several other relays in your two relay
banks. So try seitching them, but keep treck of what you are doing
so
you return the switched and probably good relay to its proper home.
The circuit breaker identified above services both the fan 3rd speed
relay and the fan 4th speed relay as well as the start inhibit relay.
So it is important to keep this breaker in good condition.
Aldo Buono
De Lorean Midatlantic, President
DMC #14, Board of Governors
VIN 1440
Looking forward to seeing you at Eastern Regional Run 7, September
13
and 14, 1997, Richmond Virginia. For info, email: jsinger(AT)dmc12.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:40:36 -0500
From: "John P. Chandler II"
Subject: DML: AC Condenser
I need an new AC Condenser for my '81. Does anyone have any cross
reference
information for a replacement at a more reasonable price than the factory
replacements?
John P. Chandler II
Hayward, WI. 54843
Voice: 715-462-9337
Fax: 715-462-3682
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 23:17:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Martin
Subject: Re: DML: Turbocharged.
Hi,
As a note, as well as a (small) reply. I read somewhere that caution
should be exercised when fitting the turbo to an auto tranny as it is
dubious that it can take more than 220hp
Are there any supercharger kits? These are obvously less constant wear on
the engine, and I've certainly read of one person who's fitted one
himself. Maybe with a supercharger and self-control not to over-use it,
you could pull a few more HP from the car without adding to much to the
wear...
Martin
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 raddad(AT)cmn.net wrote:
> Brandon Payne wrote: "If you add a turbocharger or a twin turbo to a
> DeLorean, how much
> horsepower can you get out of it? And do you have to change the
> transmission? Would
> Nitrous Oxide boosters work with a DeLorean? Thanks!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This is one of those "it depends" questions. I believe that Island
> Manifold once said their twin set-up will give you 200+ horsepower. Their
> current ads don't quote a horsepower increase. Almost all the D service
> centers suggest you keep the boost to 6.5 pounds max to preserve the
> engine. With that boost (I run 6 pounds) I suspect you are looking at
> 30-40 HP increase. Obviously, if you go with forged pistons, total seal
> rings, lower compression, etc. you can probably go 12 pounds or higher,
> but
> I don't know anyone who is running like that.
>
> There is a nitrous kit that has been advertised in the DeLorean World in
> the past.
>
> As for the tranny, I've heard that you are pushing your luck with more
> than
> 250 HP, but I don't know where that figure came from.
>
> Dick Ryan
> The Rad Dad
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 00:28:45 +0100
From: "Sacha Prins"
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless Frames
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:27:10 -0400 (EDT), TVRUS(AT)aol.com wrote:
>Has anyone replaced there rusting frame with a new stainless steel frame
>from
>Peirce???? Aside from the new frame cost what did it cost to pull the old
>frame off and put the new frame on??? And would you do it again???
>
Maybe this is a stupid question that has been answered before; Why were
the original frames not made from stainless steel?
Sacha
Sacha Prins, Premier Online Entrepeneur Extraordinaire Royal (with cheese)
sprins(AT)businessnet.net http://www.businessnet.net/people/sacha/
http://www.businessnet.net http://www.businessnet.net/people/sacha/pgp/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:11:52 -0700
From: e/evan/altendorf
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless Frames
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:28:45 BST, "Sacha Prins" wrote:
>
> Maybe this is a stupid question that has been answered before; Why were
> the original frames not made from stainless steel?
In general, stainless steel is significantly harder to fabricate
(welding and shaping in particular). It is also not quite as strong
and stiff as more standard steels. I would imagine it is also quite a
bit more expensive.
Incidentally, compared to high-quality exotic steels, stainless is
really pathetic in terms of strength, stiffness, etc (that's why you
don't see any stainless steel bikes ;). Don't know whether the D used
a real good steel or just a standard low-carbon. I would expect a
standard low-carbon.
- -e.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:51:14 -0700
From: Dan Berglund
Subject: DML: Info on Single Turbo
I would like to get some info from anyone out there that has a SINGLE =
turbo on your car, I have a chance to get one and I want to know anyones =
impressions etc.
Thanks,
Dan Berglund
Nov '81 #6623
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:06:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: raddad(AT)cmn.net
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless Frames
>Maybe this is a stupid question that has been answered before; Why were
>the original frames not made from stainless steel?
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -
- ---------
I suspect there were two reasons -- one was cost and the other was that
the
engineers honestly thought that the epoxy coating would last much longer
than it did.
Dick Ryan
The Rad Dad
P.S. Glad to see you found a D. Welcome to the club!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:51:10 -0400
From: Mike Substelny
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless vs epoxy coated frames
Dick said (re: why original frame not stainless)
> I suspect there were two reasons -- one was cost and the other
> was that the engineers honestly thought that the epoxy coating
> would last much longer than it did.
As I recall the DeLorean was supposed to have a design life of
something like 15 years. By that standard the typical epoxy-coated
frame has performed just fine. I think mine has at least ten more years
in
it.
Originally, the DeLorean frame was to be ERM polymer, which would
have been light weight, given plenty of energy absorbtion in a crash, and
been rust-free. Too bad this technology was dropped by DMC in favor
of the Lotus-designed steel frame.
- - Mike Substelny
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 15:45:36 +0100
From: "Sacha Prins"
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless vs epoxy coated frames
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:51:10 -0400, Mike Substelny wrote:
>As I recall the DeLorean was supposed to have a design life of
>something like 15 years. By that standard the typical epoxy-coated
>frame has performed just fine. I think mine has at least ten more years
>in
>it.
_IF_ the frame is rusting, how long would it take before the car breaks
apart? And is is possible to replace parts of the frame with new steel
parts?
I'm asking this because I was offered a DMC12 with a rusted-through
frame.
Not that I bought it, but I'm wordering how much such a car would be
worth
(approx.).
Sacha
Sacha Prins, Premier Online Entrepeneur Extraordinaire Royal (with cheese)
sprins(AT)businessnet.net http://www.businessnet.net/people/sacha/
http://www.businessnet.net http://www.businessnet.net/people/sacha/pgp/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 10:22:38 -0000
From: James Espey
Subject: DML: DeLorean Motor Company (Houston) to host event in Columbus, Ohio
Word is just in that Stephen Wynne and DeLorean Motor Company will be
hosting a DeLorean event at the former KAPAC warehouse, on the weekend of
November 1st and 2nd, 1997 in Columbus, Ohio.
Unlike the KAPAC events in the past, this will be more of a full-featured
event, complete with a rally and technical seminars. This is a great
opportunity to see an important piece of DeLorean history, and also to
easily see for yourself just how many DeLorean parts are left. Since
DMC's acquisition of the 46,000 square foot warehouse of DeLorean parts
earlier this year, Stephen and his staff have been busily getting it
organized and preparing it for the move to Houston later next year.
To assist in the organization, inventorying and move DMC has been
fortunate enough to retain the services of Leif Montin (former National
Parts Manager for the original DeLorean Motor Company!) and Leif will be
on hand at this event to answer questions and the like.
The itinerary is still being finalized, but this is how it looks:
Friday, October 1, 7:00pm to ??? - Informal get-together at location TBA.
Saturday, November 1, 8:00am to 11:30am - Half of group tours warehouse
while the other half attends tech seminars.
Saturday, November 1, 1:00pm to 4:30pm - Half of group tours
warehousewhile the other half attends tech seminars.
Sunday, November 2, 8:00am - Rally, brunch, possibly followed by a repeat
trip to warehouse for those interested.
A special room rate has been negotiated with a nearby hotel for
attendees. Complete details are too lengthy to list here, so please call,
fax or email DeLorean Motor Company (Houston) for more information about
this entire great event.
(281) 568-9573 Voice
(281) 568-9386 Fax
delorean(AT)mail.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 10:57:45 -0000
From: James Espey
Subject: DML: DMC Warehouse Dates
Mike Subtelny just wrote to clarify the dates...
>I just got your KAPAC announcement. It lists the dates as November
>1st and 2nd, but gives events for the October 1st and November 1st. I
>assume the "Informal get-together" will be Oct 31, NOT Oct 1 as shown?
That's correct - my mistake. The informal get-together is October 31,
with the actual events at the warehouse occuring the next morning.
My apologies...
James
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:42:06 -0400
From: Mike Substelny
Subject: DML: DMC / KAPAC - "The Best Little Warehouse not in Texas" (yet)
Having attented the two previous KAPAC tours, I must comment that I
expect this to be a terrific event. The very sight of that huge
warehouse of DeLorean parts boggles the mind!
The previous tours, which were just a few hours long, brought people
from very long distances. This event is much bigger, so it will probably
draw a huge crowd!
I encourage everyone to make their plans for this event immediately. You
will want confirmed hotel and travel reservations. You will especially
want to get a map and directions for getting around Columbus before you
go.
The warehouse can be very tricky to find. The former Chapter 23 group
had people get lost in Columbus several times . . . even when following a
caravan of DeLoreans! I used to think that was impossible, but it's not.
- - Mike Substelny
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:59:57 -0700
From: "."
Subject: DML: DMC Shocks
Hi all,
My De Lorean seems to have a rough ride at highway speeds. I don't
know if this is normal because it's the only one I've driven. Is this a
characteristic of the DMC-12? In D1's catalog they have new shocks/struts
or something for just under $400 I think. Would getting these replaced
help at all? Anyone purchase these and have good results?
Also, my driver side door handle (on the inside) is coming loose. Is
there a quick fix? Thanks.
-Ace Underhill-
luuke(AT)primenet.com
-Zemeckis is why I bought it;
De Lorean is why I drive it.-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 16:37:27 PDT
From: "Brandon S. Moody"
Subject: Re: DML: Stainless Frames
> Maybe this is a stupid question that has been answered before; Why were
> the original frames not made from stainless steel?
>
I don't know for sure but I would venture to guess it was due to the
expense and stainless being very dificult to shape and work with.
remember JZD was wanting to produce a $12 K car, the stainless
body and Gullwing door design had already cost enough.
stainless is not a good material for structural use anyway. remember the
vertical indentations on the early 81 model hoods were removed due
to many of the hoods cracking during the stamping process. Stainless is
very prone to metal fatigue and I would wander if a stainless frame would
be a very good choice or not ? I would thing aluminum would be the
best choice ? Just my thoughts, nothing fact !
- -Brandon
------------------------------
End of dmcnews-digest V3 #280
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