Wednesday, September 2 1998 Volume 03 : Number 409
In this issue:
DML: Re: Hot Start & Tachometer Diagnostics
DML: [admin] Guest Moderator for next week or so...
Re: DML: Hood Pattern / Dent Problem
DML: Re: Re: Automatic lock inspection/removal proceedure question
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: d sightings
Re: DML: Workshop manual
DML: Re: [admin] Guest Moderator for next week or so...
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: Expo in L.A.
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: Water Wetter
DML: Bosch fuel injection control pressure
Re: DML: Water Wetter
Re: DML: Expo in L.A.
DML: Dutchland Collector Auto Auction
Re: DML: Water Wetter
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Re: DML: Bosch fuel injection control pressure
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: Delorean at SIU?
DML: SS Braided Brake Lines
DML: Re: Delorean at SIU? ----"My Classic Car Autofest in Evansville,
Re: DML: Water Wetter
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: LIGHT UNDER HOOD
DML: Prototypes and Test Cars
DML: Re: Bosch fuel injection control pressure
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: Goodyear NCTs on sale at tire rack & more
Re: DML: Water Wetter
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
DML: Electric Turbos
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:53:05 -0400 From: "DMCJoe" <dmcjoe(AT)att.net> Subject: DML: Re: Hot Start & Tachometer Diagnostics
Erik, If you have a factory installed fuel pump with an internal check valve there's a 40% chance that this is the cause of a hot start problem. If the updated pump with an external check valve is in place it is unlikely the pump is the source of the problem. In either case the fuel accumulator is the cause of your problem. There is no effective way to determine which component is at fault, even when using a fuel pressure test kit. Overall there is a 4 to 1 chance that it is the accumulator. For your poor acceleration problem check your fuel enrichment circuit i.e.: You should hear your frequency valve, located on the right valve cover, buzzing while the engine is idling. If you hear no buzz this is the cause of poor acceleration, if it is buzzing you probably need to do a C.O. mixture adjustment. Your engine cut out and erratic tach may be due to a bad battery ground. Although you mentioned you checked this, do it again. Follow your battery ground to where it is attached to the frame, depending on you VIN# it is either located on the right hand frame rail in the engine compartment below the "jump start post" or bolted to the right hand trailing arm bushing. In either case also check the large spade lug at the end of the cable. In many cars this lug was not soldered properly and may be loose therefore preventing a solid contact. One question I have is; what is you voltmeter doing while your tach is dancing. Joe/DeLorean Services
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 98 12:26:45 -0000 From: James Espey <espey(AT)dmcnews.com> Subject: DML: [admin] Guest Moderator for next week or so...
Our ever-popular "guest moderator", Knut Grimsrud will be handling the moderation duties of the list through next Monday. I will be periodically checking my personal email, but replies may be delayed. Thanks!
James Espey Vacationing Moderator, DeLorean Mailing List http://www.dmcnews.com
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:59:46 EDT From: KKoncelik(AT)aol.com Subject: Re: DML: Hood Pattern / Dent Problem
If you do manage to mess up the hood you can use a straight (not orbital )sander over the hood (bonnet) with 70 grit paper. This will rebrush in effect the part that ended up being polished more resulting in the X showing through. In most cases the X shadow is an inconsistant polish rather than an actual crease. If you are creased then you are stuck with the X. To make the grain look better you can use a stainless steel pad and some comet or stainless steel powder and blend it but be ssure to support it as this article said or you will be right back to where you started.
Ken
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:12:00 -0700 From: "Dave Price" <davep(AT)humanmachine.com> Subject: DML: Re: Re: Automatic lock inspection/removal proceedure question
>a side note, the first time I removed a lower door panel it took me three >hours, I can now do it in 5 min., hope this adds some encouragement. >Joe/DeLorean Services >
hehe.. it took me three hours to give up, and I've been living with the handle dangling by one screw for several months now... I'll try your approach, maybe I'll have better luck.... Thanks!
Dave
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 04:25:49 +0100 From: "Martin Gutkowski (UK)" <martin.is(AT)connect-2.co.uk> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Simon Lees Milne of the DeLorean Owners CLub UK commissioned headers for his car, and I believe, getting on for ten "British" DeLoreans now sport them. You can get a set for 500 GB Pounds. In the words of Dave Howarth: "his car isn't half quick" - Simon's car is an automatic and will easily outrun a manual with stock exhaust system (with cat). I spoke to Simon about the performance increase and he said "when measured, it registered about 200hp on the flywheel which translates to about 170 on the road". Make of that what you will.
It is how the "Euro spec" car would have been produced, so I'll be getting them for my car :-)
Martin
James D. Shumard wrote:
> Greetings-- > > Who's had experience with installing headers onto a D? > > What works the best for those of us who want to start up their D and scare > their neighbors? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > James D. Shumard > jds(AT)msn.com > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:28:04 -0400 From: cadillacsrme(AT)juno.com (christopher a posey) Subject: DML: d sightings
I live in Knoxville, TN and on occasion I will see a Delorean around town. The strangest thing has happened to me this past week; I have seen a D everyday, even today. One was at a Dr.'s office in west Knoxville in the morning, several on Kingston Pike, and one at the shopping center on the west side of WestTown mall with the plate INSECUR. If any of you are on this list please email me, I would like to talk with you. Thanks, Aaron Posey cadysrme(AT)yahoo.com Rodgers Cadillac
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:28:33 EDT From: dmcnut(AT)juno.com (DeLorean Nut) Subject: Re: DML: Workshop manual
On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:33:12 PDT "De Miller" <demillerkansas(AT)hotmail.com> writes: >Hello all: > Does anyone know where to get, have access to or have for sale, a >Workshop Manual and a complete set of factory bulletins? Any site to >download them, like the Parts Manual? I know P.J. Grady has them for >sale, but I was hoping to save a little dough. Thanks. >
A gentleman in my area (Worcester, MA) sells (publishes?) reprints of both the "DeLorean Workshop Manual" and "Factory Service Bulletins" in softcover spiralbound editions at fair prices. He does business under the name Hydro-E-Lectric and has his own 1-800 number (I usually visit him at home and call directly there if I need anything, but I believe the 1-800 number is available nationwide). Good luck.
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 22:09:18 -0500 From: "C. Longwisch" <CL1954(AT)midwest.net> Subject: DML: Re: [admin] Guest Moderator for next week or so...
You mean you get all the salary, prestige, and a vacation with this job!?
Cecil Longwisch DMC1982 VIN# 10663
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:45:48 -0600 (MDT) From: raddad(AT)cmn.net Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Snip - -------------------------- I spoke to Simon about the performance >increase and he said "when measured, it registered about 200hp on the >flywheel >which translates to about 170 on the road". Make of that what you will. - ----------------------------------
Martin this is not to challenge you or Simon, but I find it inconceivable that headers alone can produce a HP increase identical to or greater than twin turbos with 5.5 to 6.5 lbs of boost. Is there a mechanical engineer out there or anyone else (Joe?) who can shed any light on this.
If this is, in fact, true, it is the route every D owner should go. It would place absolutely no stress on the engine, give greater gas mileage (assuming the same driving style) and be the cheapest form of souping up the PRV I have heard of.
Any thoughts on this -- anyone???
Dick Ryan
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 00:41:22 -0700 From: Hank Breer <hbreer(AT)ix.netcom.com> Subject: DML: Expo in L.A.
Hello all....
First, the whole family shares this address on the list so this is Lorraine, Hank's daughter.
Anyway I was just curious is there were anyone coming down to Expo in the 16 to 35 year old range?? Doesn't seem like there is much planned for after any of the dinners and was curious if any of you were interested in getting together and cruising Hollywood/Sunset Strip or something along that line. Remember Jim... cruising like in Nashville, well minus the breakdown. :) Let me know, I live here and I am sure I can finnagel the car away from dad.
Lorraine mailto:stajia(AT)aol.com
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 07:54:28 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy(AT)dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
I think the catch is that you need to remove the CAT's.... This is not a problem for me, because I removed them already to install the turbos...
My big question is, can I install the turbos on the headers?! Does anyone have pictures of the headers installed?
Marc
raddad(AT)cmn.net wrote: > > Snip > -------------------------- > I spoke to Simon about the performance > >increase and he said "when measured, it registered about 200hp on the > >flywheel > >which translates to about 170 on the road". Make of that what you will. > ---------------------------------- > > Martin this is not to challenge you or Simon, but I find it inconceivable > that headers alone can produce a HP increase identical to or greater than > twin turbos with 5.5 to 6.5 lbs of boost. Is there a mechanical engineer > out there or anyone else (Joe?) who can shed any light on this. > > If this is, in fact, true, it is the route every D owner should go. It > would place absolutely no stress on the engine, give greater gas mileage > (assuming the same driving style) and be the cheapest form of souping up > the PRV I have heard of. > > Any thoughts on this -- anyone??? > > Dick Ryan
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:17:21 -0500 From: "Duke" <at88mph(AT)mobis.com> Subject: DML: Water Wetter
Has anyone tried using 'Water Wetter' in their 'D and, if so, did it = actually make a difference??? I have a '95 T/A and alot of people = recommend it and I figured, hey, it might help the 'D too. You can find = out some details about it at:
http://www.thunderracing.com/waterwet.htm
Later,
Duke
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:06:41 -0700 From: "Grimsrud, Knut S" <knut.s.grimsrud(AT)intel.com> Subject: DML: Bosch fuel injection control pressure
Question of the day for the true Bosch fuel injection expert:
Background:
The fuel system's control pressure provides the back pressure for the air flow sensor plate in the intake. This back pressure works against the deflection of the air flow sensor plate as well as providing appropriate damping and such. The deflection of the air flow sensor is used to control the fuel metering needle in the fuel distributor in order to meter the appropriate amount of fuel according to the amount of air flowing into the engine.
Question:
Since the performance of the engine is in large part determined by the amount of air the engine can take in (to which the appropriate amount of fuel is added), why would one not want a low control pressure in order to reduce the air-flow restriction imposed by the back pressure of the air flow sensor plate?
Knut Grimsrud DeLorean Club of Oregon
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 98 10:10:21 -0000 From: James Espey <espey(AT)dmcnews.com> Subject: Re: DML: Water Wetter
On 9/1/98 3:16 PM, Duke shared these fine thoughts...
>Has anyone tried using 'Water Wetter' in their 'D and, if so, did it = >actually make a difference??? I have a '95 T/A and alot of people = >recommend it and I figured, hey, it might help the 'D too. You can find = >out some details about it at
Shortly after I bought my DeLorean in 1995, I used this product thinking it would help kee the DeLorean cooler like it did my other cars. Within a day or two after putting it in my cooling system, it began to leak at the water pump hose. Coincidence? Could be, but I never used it again after repairing/flushing the system,andi have had no problems since...YMMV.
James
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 98 10:15:46 -0000 From: James Espey <espey(AT)dmcnews.com> Subject: Re: DML: Expo in L.A.
On 9/1/98 7:40 AM, Lori Breer shared these fine thoughts...
>Anyway I was just curious is there were anyone coming down to Expo >in the 16 to 35 year old range?? Doesn't seem like there is much >planned for after any of the dinners and was curious if any of you were >interested in getting together and cruising Hollywood/Sunset Strip or >something >along that line. Remember Jim... cruising like in Nashville, well >minus the breakdown. :) Let me know, I live here and I am sure >I can finnagel the car away from dad.
16 to 35 - jeez, just three more years and I will be too old to play! Perhaps I should start investigating rocking chairs and viagra!
I hear that there are only about 130 people registered for the Expo, so it'll be a smaller showing comapred to Nashville, and the IMO, the DOA tends to ignore the fastest growing segemnt of DeLorean owners - the "16 to 35" year olds.
Lori, count me in for Friday night, and probably Saturday, too. I'd like to broaden your invitation to include ANYONE coming to Expo, the more the merrier (especially if there is a breakdown!)
James
Guest Moderator's Note: Should we start a collection for James' rocking chair?
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:56:00 -0400 From: Aldo.Buono(AT)phila.gov Subject: DML: Dutchland Collector Auto Auction
Another De Lorean is coming up at auction.
Saturday, October 3, 1998.
Strasburg Inn, Route 896, Strasburg, Pennsylvania
1981 Stainless. No more info available from auctioneer.
If you go, keep us informed.
Aldo Buono, President
De Lorean Midatlantic
VIN 1440
DOC 14
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:23:23 EDT From: JSteuben(AT)aol.com Subject: Re: DML: Water Wetter
Hi Duke, Racing formula fords at Willow Springs in the summer time, is always a challenge in the over heating department. So naturally, anything that would help to keep the English designed cars cooler was tried, including water wetter. The result... ehhh! It helped a little, but not enough to solve the problem. Avoid the stuff in crystal form. It had a tendency to clog up everything. Believe it or not, the most cooling we were able to muster was, after flushing the system, using distilled water only. But that's probley not real practical on the street. Good luck, Joe
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:28:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Wilson <fluffy(AT)snurgle.org> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Marc A Levy wrote:
> My big question is, can I install the turbos on the headers?! Does > anyone have pictures of the headers installed?
Would you really want to install turbos on the headers? I don't think you could get any additional gain that way, more than you would with turbos alone. All it will do is make your car loud (and your engine funny looking) ;)
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 14:02:46 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy(AT)dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: Bosch fuel injection control pressure
I asked a similar question a few months back..
My question was based on my desire to increase richness of the air/fuel mixture to try and improve the performance of my car with the turbo's under boost.
The advice I received from a "turbo Specialty Shop" was that on the Delorean, as well as other similar fuel injection systems, the method to increase the fuel in the mixture was to REDUCE the fuel pressure, to allow the air flow sensor to open more, and as a result, opend the valve to let more fuel get to the injectors.
According to this mechanic, he claimed there was a small "Black Box" on the fuel return line that had a little plunger in it. By moving the plunger, you could adjust the fuel pressure in the system. I spent some time looking for the part he described, but could not locate it.
I was unsure how the Lambda system (O2 sensor) came in to the picture. Does the Lambda computer regulate the fuel pressure? or is there some other method it uses to control the mixture? Due to my lack of understanding, I decided not to mess with it!
IMHO, There are many better systems available now for intake/fuel control.. If I had the time I would be looking in to transplanting a more modern fuel injection system in to the D... Maybe from the Eagle Premier?? That would be a good place to start looking.. (I have never been in one, or under the hood of one). I expect it would require the entire intake system be replaced, the injectors and related computer/sensors (cam position, Mass Air Flow, etc.) would also need to be installed.
Grimsrud, Knut S wrote: > > Question of the day for the true Bosch fuel injection expert: > > Background: > > The fuel system's control pressure provides the back pressure for the air > flow sensor plate in the intake. This back pressure works against the > deflection of the air flow sensor plate as well as providing appropriate > damping and such. The deflection of the air flow sensor is used to control > the fuel metering needle in the fuel distributor in order to meter the > appropriate amount of fuel according to the amount of air flowing into the > engine. > > Question: > > Since the performance of the engine is in large part determined by the > amount of air the engine can take in (to which the appropriate amount of > fuel is added), why would one not want a low control pressure in order to > reduce the air-flow restriction imposed by the back pressure of the air > flow > sensor plate? > > Knut Grimsrud > DeLorean Club of Oregon
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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 03:26:23 +0100 From: "Martin Gutkowski (UK)" <martin.is(AT)connect-2.co.uk> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Regarding my last post, and a further question about the Peugot 605 also in my same "inbox":
1: I enquired about changing the DeLorean's mechanical fuel injection to electronic - like that in the 605. The answer was basically that it would be simpler to drop a 605 engine in the D than try to convert it.
2: Headers allow the exhaust to leave the engine with the minimum possible resistance, hence YES the reason for the conversion being possible over here and not in the US (most states, anyway) is that the Catalytic Converter can be legally removed (the car is old enough not to have to have one here). The Euro prototypes were driven out of the factory with no cat in them, but as is documented elsewhere, they were still not the "finished" product. All the piping to incorporate the cats was/is still present.
3: A turbo works by using the escaping exhaust gasses to spin a turbine which in turn spins a fan forcing air into the engine. Since this turbine very definitely provides resistance to the escaping exhaust, adding turbo(s) will detract from the efficiency gained from installing headers. Because of this, I'll (maybe) be looking at supercharging the car. I would like to say at this point that there is a VERY good website at
http://www.demon.co.uk/turbotec/index.htm
telling you pretty much all you ever wanted to know about turbos. I have yet to call them to find out it they make a replacement for the Renault Alpine GT Turbo, but I will ring them tomorrow.
I will endeavour to get the details of the company which makes the headers here.
Martin
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 16:08:06 CDT From: "Edward Pryor" <fasted98(AT)hotmail.com> Subject: DML: Delorean at SIU?
I am a student at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. I was driving around campus when I happened to look at a row of cars in a parking lot on campus when I seen a Delorean. My heart started to pound because I was excited. I haven't seen many Deloreans before except at the Car Show in Cincinatti, Ohio. I love Deloreans of course. I was wondering if the person who owns this car is on the mailing list and maybe the owner could give me a tour of his beautiful car, or a ride if I'm lucky. I never have rode in a Delorean before and I wonder what it is like. I plan on buying one someday of course.
Sincerely,
Edward Pryor
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:30:47 EDT From: WINGD2(AT)aol.com Subject: DML: SS Braided Brake Lines
Here's an update on the SS braided brake line project. The brake line kits were "ordered or put into production" so to speak, the middle of last week. The best guess right now is the kits should arrive the week of the 20th of Sept. As I recieve better info I will pass it along. To those who have sent me checks, your kits are reserved. To those who inquired about the kits but have not sent checks, please e-mail me and let me know if you want a kit for sure. No extra kits are being made. Any kits not wanted by those who expressed interest, will be made available to others.
Thanks, Marty
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:31:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Micah Fryman" <nocoke2(AT)litchfieldil.com> Subject: DML: Re: Delorean at SIU? ----"My Classic Car Autofest in Evansville,
IN" Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:48:39 -0500 Sender: dmcnews(AT)world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: dmcnews(AT)world.std.com
Edward, The car you saw is owned by a good friend of mine, Lincoln Nation of Mt.Vernon, IL. He is a member of our local Central and Southern Illinois Delorean group, "Mid-State Delorean Club". He does a lot of work on the car and I'm sure he would love to give you a tour of the car. You can reach Lincoln at 618-242-7164 in the evenings. He has his own lawn mowing business and doesn't get home until late evening. If you would like to attend any of our get togethers, e-mail at nocoke2(AT)litchfieldil.com.
TO THE DMC MAILING LIST: If anyone would like to attend the "My Classic Car 2nd Annual Autofest" in Evansville, IN on October 2-4 give me a call at 217-324-6558. Mid-State Delorean Club will again be attending this show. Last year we had 8 Deloreans and hope to have more this year. This show is televised on the "My Classic Car" auto show on TNN. The Delorean had some good coverage last year with an interview with Lincoln Nation and a short clip of the group opening there door before a commercial break. This is a big event and a short trip for people in the Mid-West. Hope to see you there. You can reach them by e-mail: http://www.myclassiccar.com
Sincerely, Micah Fryman Vin: 16694 Vin: 0694 Vin: 4784
- ---------- > From: Edward Pryor <fasted98(AT)hotmail.com> > To: dmcnews(AT)world.std.com > Subject: DML: Delorean at SIU? > Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 4:08 PM > > I am a student at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. I was > driving around campus when I happened to look at a row of cars in a > parking lot on campus when I seen a Delorean. My heart started to pound > because I was excited. I haven't seen many Deloreans before except at > the Car Show in Cincinatti, Ohio. I love Deloreans of course. I was > wondering if the person who owns this car is on the mailing list and > maybe the owner could give me a tour of his beautiful car, or a ride if > I'm lucky. I never have rode in a Delorean before and I wonder what it > is like. I plan on buying one someday of course. >
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:38:18 -0600 (MDT) From: raddad(AT)cmn.net Subject: Re: DML: Water Wetter
I used Red Line's Water Wetter (a liquid formulation) in my previous D. I had absolutely no problems with it. It helped reduce the temperature a little, but unless you are willing to reduce the anti-freeze mixture quite a bit, it's efficiency is not too good.
I don't use it in my present D because I have one of the P.J. Grady triple core, brass radiators and I no longer worry about overheating, even in the hottest of weather and the slowest of traffic - - a very good investment.
Dick Ryan
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:57:02 -0600 (MDT) From: raddad(AT)cmn.net Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Martin, there's good news and bad news in the turbo vs supercharger. The bad news is that they both take some hp to run. It is generally conceded that the turbos take less than the superchargers. However, the superchargers have the advantage of working at low speed as well as at high speed and they pump cooler air into the engine. The arguments for one vs. the other have gone back and forth like a pendulum for years. For high end power, it's turbos (witness the Indy and F1 cars!!) For low end power it's superchargers (witness dragsters!!). Decisions, decisions, decisions.
In either event, I havbe no Cats on my twin turbos. The mufflers, which are less restrictive than the original probably rob more HP than the turbos.
Please understand that I am fascinated by the potential of the headers if the claims can be substantiated. I am just more than a bit skeptical.
Dick Ryan
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:51:47 -0400 From: "John Pietrowski" <kritter(AT)toast.net> Subject: DML: LIGHT UNDER HOOD
Hi,
I just bought an 81 automatic a month ago and have a few (of many) questions.
I put a bulb into the socket to light up under the hood, and it won't go off once it's installed. I can't find a switch that controls the on/off of the light, Can anybody help me with this one.
Also, when I push the hazard button down really hard, the hazards will flash except only when the turn signal is in the left turn position. If the turn signal is off, only the right light flashes. Is there an electrical problem or do you think that replacing the hazard switch will cure the problem.
Thanks.
John G Pietrowski kritter(AT)toast.net
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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 20:29:01 -0500 From: Daniel McGauley <hawkeye(AT)creativeworlds.com> Subject: DML: Prototypes and Test Cars
Does anyone know where the original two prototypes or the 400 test shell (no ss) DeLoreans ended up? Neither Lotus UK or the Ulster Transport Museum know where they are now-a-days.
- -Daniel
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:28:02 -0500 From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut(AT)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Subject: DML: Re: Bosch fuel injection control pressure
- ---------- > From: Grimsrud, Knut S <knut.s.grimsrud(AT)intel.com> > To: 'dmcnews(AT)world.std.com' > Subject: DML: Bosch fuel injection control pressure > Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 11:06 AM > > Question of the day for the true Bosch fuel injection expert:
> Question: > > Since the performance of the engine is in large part determined by the > amount of air the engine can take in (to which the appropriate amount of > fuel is added), why would one not want a low control pressure in order to > reduce the air-flow restriction imposed by the back pressure of the air > flow > sensor plate? > > > Knut Grimsrud > DeLorean Club of Oregon
Since the DeLorean uses mechanical injectors that require an specific pressure to open and produce a proper spray pattern, I don't think you want to lower the system pressure. There is a small valve in the side of the fuel distributor, the primary pressure regulator, that can be adjusted by adding and removing shims, Don't mess with it unless you have the gauges to tell you where you're at. I played with raising the pressure a bit but really didn't notice much difference in performance.
Bruce Benson
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:32:54 -0500 From: "BRUCE BENSON" <delornut(AT)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
> I spoke to Simon about the performance > >increase and he said "when measured, it registered about 200hp on the > >flywheel > >which translates to about 170 on the road". Make of that what you will.
>3: A turbo works by using the escaping exhaust gasses to spin a turbine >which >in turn spins a fan forcing air into the engine. Since this turbine very >definitely provides resistance to the escaping exhaust, adding turbo(s) will >detract from the efficiency gained from installing headers. Because of this, >I'll (maybe) be looking at supercharging the car.
>Martin > ---------------------------------- > > Martin this is not to challenge you or Simon, but I find it inconceivable > that headers alone can produce a HP increase identical to or greater than > twin turbos with 5.5 to 6.5 lbs of boost. Is there a mechanical engineer > out there or anyone else (Joe?) who can shed any light on this. > > If this is, in fact, true, it is the route every D owner should go. It > would place absolutely no stress on the engine, give greater gas mileage > (assuming the same driving style) and be the cheapest form of souping up > the PRV I have heard of. > > Any thoughts on this -- anyone??? > > Dick Ryan
Increasing an engines output starts with increasing what goes into it followed by the logic, what goes in must come out. Headers will allow the engine to breath better, which will allow it to rev more freely and make better use of the incoming fuel mix but I seriously doubt that headers alone can increase the horse power to the levels spoken of here. When you change things like valve timing, compression ratios, bore and stroke, and so on, your making physical changes that get more fuel into the engine and also making the engine more efficiently use that fuel. With more coming in, changes must also be made to expell all that energy so a free flowing exhaust is needed to balance the equation. The down side is all of this works well under high engine speeds but at idle and slower speeds things tend to load up as there is no way to change these new physical characteristics to accomodate the lessoned demand of low engine speed. Of course I'm speaking of technologies from a decade or two back, which is the time of the DeLorean's manufacture. For that reason I think either the exhaust driven or belt driven supercharger like the turbo offers a good compromise. The engine runs normaly until it's placed under load and then the turbo force feeds, so to speak, the engine to a greater efficency. Actually the exhaust system is a very important in tuning a turbo installation. To much free flow will allow over boost. When the tail pipe from the muffler back, was removed from the SAAB turbo I used to own, it would over boost and the fuel pump safety relay would shut off the fuel. There is less resistance in a good turbo system than you would think. Properly done, a single turbo system should have 3" pipe for the first 18" out of the turbo to prevent the rolling gases from rolling back into the turbo. The flow straightens out after 18" and I went with 2 1/2" pipe at that point. Stiil, I'll bet those headers with dual mufflers sound pretty nice
Starting about the year 2002 the automotive electrical standard is going to change from 12v to 42v. This will allow much more electrical input into the design and operation of automobiles. Mercedes has a V8 that will have soleniods activating the valves in place of camshafts and valve train hardware. Imagine what that means. An onboard computor can change the valve operation to match any demand the engine has to meet. Other things such as drive by wire will eliminate much of the hardware linking the front suspension system. I guess this got off the track a bit but I thought it's very interesting. You'll see these changes first on the up scale cars but with-in a few years the technology will trickle down to more mundane vehicles.
Bruce Benson
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:12:03 -0400 From: Steve <dmc(AT)fdt.net> Subject: DML: Goodyear NCTs on sale at tire rack & more
While looking for tires, I came across a sale on Goodyear NCTs in the rear size of 235/60/15 at Tire Rack. I've never bought from them before, but their sale price is a good savings over my local goodyear dealer who wants $240 and the list of $270. Below is their ad from www.tirerack.com:
Goodyear Eagle NCT $178 W High Performance
W is the speed rating. (this may be a misprint. AFAIK, the currently available rear size NCTs are Z speed rated)
I'm leaning towards buying the Yokohama AVS intermediates, which tire rack rates as Ultra High Performance though, because they are also available in the front size. I would value the personal opinion of those who have had a chance to try both the Goodyears and the Yokohama's as to which one really is better. (The only thing I could find in the back issues was that they were quieter)
One of my friends, (a car buff) also suggested that since I'm buying new tires I might want to look at getting larger rims and tires with smaller sidewalls for improved preformance. I couldn't find much on this in the back issues either. I would value comments on just how much this improves handling, worsens the 'ride,' etc. This seems to be a good way to improve performance without permanent modifications, and has the added bonus of protecting the factory wheels from curbs and other hazards.
-Steve <dmc(AT)fdt.net> VIN #17117
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:16:33 EDT From: KayoOng(AT)aol.com Subject: Re: DML: Water Wetter
Duke,
Save your money. I learnt about this product from the internet when I was on another "famous" car website. It cost about $15.00 to $19.00 depends on the outlet. The way I used, it had very little or no difference to my DeLorean. Some of the users on that site swear by it, while others are in agreement with me.
In all fairness I did said earlier "the way I used it." You are supposed to used it with NO antifreeze for maximum effect. I had antifreeze a 50/50 mixture when I added this product to my DeLorean's coolant system. I really don't dare to run it on ALL water and this product. Beside in NYC area it does get cold to freezing, at least 1/3 of the year. Comes the Fall, I would have to drop this mixture and fill it with antifreeze anyway. To much to do and to chance. My opinion? For the money get a bigger radiator and/or flush, pressure check and bleed out the air from your cooling system if you are having troubles with overheating. Check your fans and its related electric components. (Get a bigger metal radiator.)
Incidentally, they do use this product for the racing car on the racing track. The designated purpose was for the racing cars that runs hot with no antifreeze or worrying about their cars freeze on the race track.
Kayo Ong #05508 Lic. 9D NY
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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 09:04:42 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy(AT)dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
Sounds good... Is this possible?!
Martin Gutkowski (UK) wrote:
> 1: I enquired about changing the DeLorean's mechanical fuel injection to > electronic - like that in the 605. The answer was basically that it would be > simpler to drop a 605 engine in the D than try to convert it. >
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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 09:03:58 -0400 From: Marc A Levy <malevy(AT)dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: DML: 100% Pure Delorean Beef
And a Supercharger is belt driven, which will also rob horsepower from the motor... The result is that you gain much more than you loose.... This is the same theory of a Turbocharger.
A while back I heard of a Supercharger type device that was driven by a electric motor.... In essence, the electrical energy for the device will cause the alternator to work harder, and again rob a bit of horse power from the engine, the fact that you have a battery may reduce the losses.. The added bonus is that it only spins when needed.. No wear on the bearing of the fan when it is not needed, as in Turbo and Super chargers.
I agree that Turbos will detract from the efficiency gained from the headers, but it will be "In the noise" with the added HP from the turbos.
Martin Gutkowski (UK) wrote:
> 3: A turbo works by using the escaping exhaust gasses to spin a turbine > which > in turn spins a fan forcing air into the engine. Since this turbine very > definitely provides resistance to the escaping exhaust, adding turbo(s) will > detract from the efficiency gained from installing headers. Because of this, > I'll (maybe) be looking at supercharging the car. I would like to say at
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Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:24:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Wilson <fluffy(AT)snurgle.org> Subject: DML: Electric Turbos
On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Marc A Levy wrote:
> A while back I heard of a Supercharger type device that was driven by a > electric motor.... In essence, the electrical energy for the device > will cause the alternator to work harder, and again rob a bit of horse
First, I do not work for turbodyne or any other automotive-related company, nor am I an authority on their or any other turbo product. :)
You can look at these at www.turbodyne.com, they are little electric compressors that do the same thing as a turbo or super charger, only they run off the battery instead of off the engine. This wasn't done to save load on the engine, but rather, to simplify the device (they are extremely small and low-cost and will fit on practically any car) and make them work at low speeds. Their small size and electric motor enables them to spin up very quickly. As an extra bonus, they're lubricated internally and don't draw off the engine oil supply. If you've had smoking turbo problems before, you might be glad to hear that. :}
Obviously you don't want one of these if you still have the stock alternator on the D, but you could consider them if you have one of the Cadillac ones or a larger one.
They draw something like 75 amps of current, so no matter what car you put them on, they will rapidly drain out your battery if they run all the time. Unlike turbo or superchargers, they provide both low end and high end boost, because they are activated by a microswitch which you can install in the throttle linkage, so when you go to full power, the turbo comes on and away you go. This seems like a limitation at first, but, if you aren't at full power, what do you need a turbo for in the first place? :) You can also connect the switch to a driver control, if you prefer. Unfortunately, the high current draw limits how you can get the best use of the turbo; you can't take it to the track, because your battery will run down. It's really only good for acceleration - not for an overall HP gain.
Something that came into my head is that, if you're an electrical and plumbing wiz, you might be able to use one of these turbodyne things in conjunction with a single turbocharger in order to get the best of both worlds at low cost. Twin turbos are typically used over single turbos because they spin up faster and provide more boost at low speed. I wonder if you might be able to have the turbodyne work at low speeds and the large turbo work at high speeds, so that you have boost no matter what you're doing, except in the case of low-power at slow speed (traffic). You'd have to connect a kill switch and relays to either the large turbo or the tach to make sure they don't both come on at once, this shouldn't be too hard.
I admit that I don't know what the plumbing ramifications would be of this, and I don't know what you'd have to do with your timing / distributor to make this work correctly. But it's an idea.
> power from the engine, the fact that you have a battery may reduce the > losses.. The added bonus is that it only spins when needed.. No wear > on the bearing of the fan when it is not needed, as in Turbo and Super > chargers. > > I agree that Turbos will detract from the efficiency gained from the > headers, but it will be "In the noise" with the added HP from the > turbos. > > > Martin Gutkowski (UK) wrote: > > > 3: A turbo works by using the escaping exhaust gasses to spin a turbine > > which > > in turn spins a fan forcing air into the engine. Since this turbine very > > definitely provides resistance to the escaping exhaust, adding turbo(s) > will > > detract from the efficiency gained from installing headers. Because of > this, > > I'll (maybe) be looking at supercharging the car. I would like to say at > >
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End of dmcnews-digest V3 #409 *****************************
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